| Author |
Message |
    
Easyrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 02:34 am: | 
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Trafford,
You can post, so you can mail me also if you have a question (-: |
Alex
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 02:59 am: |
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I donīt know what level of data You can get to in Your Race ECU but in our Superbike ECUs there is a table that controls IAC step position against RPM. This is the table we work with in our setup to control engine breaking. It has nothing to do with idle rpm (as the engine is not in idle when decelerating from lets say 6000 to 4000).
Trafford, You can shoot me an e-mail and I will try to find out if You have access to the right table.
Best regards
Alex
M-TeK Engineering |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 03:50 am: |
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Okay all you "experts", I received an email from an EBR tech (at 10:38 his time mind you) and at the 2000rpm idle the Idle Air Controller allows more air past the plate when you close the throttle. It does this even when you close the throttle at higher RPM. By letting more air past the closed throttle plate this slows down the rate at which the engine decelerates reducing engine braking. This also reduces wheel hop during an aggressive down shift. |
Trafford
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 03:56 am: |
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This I know.....its the codes that control the IAC that I want to find
(Message edited by Trafford on April 27, 2010) |
Easyrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 04:02 am: |
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More air is leaner mixture just like I say lean out the gas return area. |
Trafford
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 05:07 am: |
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Easyrider- I hear what you say!! But are you meaning to only adjust the Fuel map in this area and not worry about the IAC codes?? |
Jules
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 06:36 am: |
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I'd say the majority of opinion (and certainly the majority of the opinion of people who should know about this type of thing) is that it's not the idle speed itself that effects the engine braking it is in fact the amount of air "allowed" during closed throttle operation (which is presumably the job of the IAC).
That's borne out by the fact that people who bought EBR ECMs and didn't request a change in idle speed have also noted a decrease in engine braking.
Leaning out the mixture in those circumstances (closed throttle) would then hyperthetically do the same thing as having the IAC "open" a little more (i.e. more air in the mix).
I'm biased towards altering the IAC settings myself (if it's possible) - but then again I have no intention of trying this so it's all hyperthetical to me. I'm sure Easy's solution would give the same/similar results.
Personally - I think I'll just see how I get on with less engine braking, maybe it'll improve my corner speeds.
There are some really interesting discussions on this forum (this is one of them) and I am learning a lot so I'm really grateful for all of the contributions. |
Trafford
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 06:45 am: |
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In some countries its not illegal to have a 'race'ECM on a bike on the road. In those countries one may want to ride in non-race conditions. Sometimes following slow traffic at a steady speed, or using the bike in a relaxed manner in top gear and braking with the engine instead of brakes on long flowing winding roads with cars here and there etc etc. That is what I am looking for. The EBR ECM is giving me non jerky low steady speeds, a lower less frenetic idle and great pick up from low rpm. The only thing I need to make it perfect (For me) is some engine braking. That is why I am asking questions. To be brutally honest, this bike will never be used on a race track.
(Message edited by trafford on April 27, 2010) |
Alex
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 07:47 am: |
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Fresnobuell,
I donīt know if one could control engine breaking with reducing idle rpm as I havenīt tried it but I do know definitely that the ECU is much smarter than that. With the table Iīm speaking of You can control engine breaking at various rpms without influencing idle. Guess You have an engine with very aggressive cams that do not allow idle rpm below 2500 rpm. How are You going to control engine breaking then?
I used said table at our race at Lausitzring to control engine breaking for the 1190 as Harald wanted more of it. I didnīt touch idle rpm and I do have doubt that changing idle rpm would have influenced engine breaking as the IAC position is not controlled "outside" idle by any idle table. Maybe the "normal" race ECUs are set up differently from the 1190 ECU but I bet the table is in there.
Alex |
Trafford
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 08:40 am: |
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I'm with you Alex....my conclusions are the same............the ECU is much smarter than that! |
Dirty_john
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 08:43 am: |
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Trafford - apart from the occasional track day neither will mine but the lack of what is minimal engine braking to me anyway is of no consequence, The Buell race ECM I fitted to my XB12R seemed to have cancelled out the engine braking anyway and I enjoyed that bike tremendously and now enjoy further the altered behaviour of my 1125R with the EBR race ECM fitted rather than the OEM part.
I suppose it all comes down to preference and for different riding styles.
I am sure that Michael at EBR could tailor the ECM to your needs if you requested it.
My old bevel drive 974 monoshock Ducati had lightened flywheels and collosal engine braking abd quite frankly it upset the bike on rapid deceleration into corners |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 08:56 am: |
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simple solution to IAC section.
Ecmread and Tunerpro. forget about the rest of the tuning stuff on the market besides the Ebr tuner from IDS for those ecms. Even then the ecmread and tunerpro can do those also.
you can control many flag functions and ect where the rest of the tuners are extremely limited. IAC is noted in the profiles in the ecms and is adjustable.
Note this setup is non commercial and free to everyone to use. Not to be used for profit...
We have two more programs about to hit open market from our skunkworks to work with EcmSpys system. These are an msq generator and a tunerpro converter to be used for data logging any ecm. These are install programs not any excel based items but based from excel sheets we make first. Then once final they are converted to language C for windows by a team member. Next we write a data logger for the bikes that collects even more data for tuning purposes.
Give us time we will have more goodies in the future. Fuel and timing front to rear comparison with value and percent difference. Even old map to new map comparison is done in excel but not done in the writing in language C. also to come soon as a install program. This in excel/openoffice is released already. |
Trafford
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 09:12 am: |
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Sorry Xoptimiser but I have Ecmread and Tunerpro but the IAC section is not showing up for me in Tunerpro. I have followed the instructions you have posted everywhere in recent months and cannot get Tunerpro to work with the EPR/Text file and transfer it into the excel map sample of yours.And I thought I was pretty good with this stuff. The best I could do was compare Std ECM readings with EBR ECM to hopefully see the IAC settings. after 5 hours I went to bed still no further ahead. I wish there were some clearer step by step instructions than the ones you posted from Gunter.......I really am trying to do this myself but struggling. Here is what I am trying to do.....
Open Tunerpro
load your xdf file ( You mean the sample or?)
go to the file on the top click it.
Click open bin
go to the lower screen on the right click the file type drop down arrow. select all file types. (do you mean select the Text file made by Ecmread?) After this it stops making sense....how many file do I need? The Ecmread text file from my ECM + The template you provide?If so what does the next instruction mean......
now go to your eeprom folder in the Ecmread program select the xpr file you like(want to load to tunerpro). It now opens in Tunerpro as a xpr file.
make your changes as you wish and save.
save in the eeprom folder in Ecmread.
(Message edited by trafford on April 27, 2010) |
Id073897
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 09:17 am: |
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It don't think it can be done with tunerpro as only idle related tables are listed there. |
Therealassmikeg
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 10:17 am: |
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Just out of curiosity Trafford,
Was there something wrong with the matched tune for the Torque Hammer exhaust, or are you doing this just a comparison between the two??
Cheers,
Mike |
Trafford
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 11:34 am: |
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Got home.....found the IAC tables so may try to experiment when I have more time.
Therealassmikeg- I wanted to do a comparison. I wanted smooth low speed running and this you definitely get with EBR ECM. I also wanted a lower idle...This I get....with 13.9-14.2 generated volts (for those who worry about this)this comes with the EBR ECM. So I can confirm it works with the torquehammer exhaust. Lower running temps too on a short test yesterday. Most importantly it is matched to the 1125R so does not have a CR spedo reading. I am sure that the Twinmotorcycles ECM will be adjusted eventually to give these benefits too. |
Easyrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 11:44 am: |
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Yes trafford, Working hard to make it comfortable for everybody, Will be available this year.. first Holiday.. |
Trafford
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 11:51 am: |
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The beauty with Easyrider is that he develops and tests his ECM on a Dyno to match his exhaust. I look forward to the next proven ECM mods. Other ECMs are compromises to fit any slip-on exhaust |
Dirty_john
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 01:30 pm: |
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Jules - I agree with your last post 100%
At idle my 1125R sits there at about 1200 to 1400 rpm just as it always has done with either the OEM or EBR ECMs, idle speed has not been altered at all,Michael at EBR confirmed by e:mail when I noticed the change in behaviour for engine braking from the OEM ECM that the IAC operation had been adjusted to prevent wheel hop.I don't miss the lack of engine braking at all to be honest.
(Message edited by Dirty_john on April 27, 2010) |
Therealassmikeg
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 03:18 pm: |
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Thanks Tradfford. I'm looking forward to getting my stage 1 tune. I'll be downloading it through the fuelsolutions.nl remote session. I'm using an 09CR ECM on my 08R and it works fine fuelling wise. It was suggested to me to try and have the dealer reflash the CR ECM using my vin# and if the flash takes I'll have the proper speedo calibration and 08r tune installed, then perform the stage 1 calibration. On another note.. why can't we just change the speedo calibration via ecm spy? Sorry for the hijack..
Cheers
Mike |
