| Author | Message | ||
     Surlypacer |
Over from the xl fourm. Its a good point. Hi all. OK, as we have ben talking about oil filters lately, I now have more info that I need to tell you all, and hopefully i can save you engine. I have ben searching the web for a Mobil 1 oil filter for my bike, but I was not able to find a listing in a Catalog, just a couple web pages that showed two different numbers, a M1-102 and a M1-301. I tried a M1-102(Cost me 10.95) and I started the engine, I notice that the pressure was 5 to 10 pounds higher then before with the Wix. Harleys oil pressure port in between the pump and the filter, so the reading is BEFORE it gets into the filter, so the higher reading was because the filter was restrickive. I also looked into the oil tank to see if it was flowing, the flow was very slow, after a short ride, the engine was hot, but the oil was not getting hot. So I shut it down, and replace the filter again with a Wix 51215. I called up Mobil and asked if I had the wrong filter, they told me that they do not sell motorcycle filters, and were not sure if it would work on my bike. They do not make these filters, so he gave me the number for Champion filters(They make Mobiles filters, and STP's). I got to talk to one of there engineers, and this is what he told me. Do not use this filter on a motorcycle. It does not have the right by-pass or flow rate, and if it damages your engine, you are on your own. He then suggested the STP motorcycle filter as a sutable one. After work today, I had a chance to talk with a tech friend of mine, Harley Bob at Paridice Harley. He not only has 45 years as a harley Mechanic, he has a 2001 1200s that he drag races, and runs high 10's, he I trust. I asked him about this filter and this what he told me. If a bike comes in with non harley filter and has a engine failure, they will check the filter numberm if it is not a Motorcycle filter, they can, and most likely will cancil the warranty. The uses of a Automotive filter is outside of that fed law that lets you use an aftermarket filter, You can only if it is oked for that vehical. Lastly, my Fram rep called on me, and had a CH6065a in hand, and we cut it open at work this lunch, you may remember that I told him my disapointment with my last filter, well, the chrome one(The CH6065A is the chrome one) still has all metal cap ends a a good solid well spaced filter eliment, so this is not what I have seen on those web sight, he said there showing there budjet filters, use the chrome ones and you should be ok. The bottom line is, don't beleive these web sights as they can leed you down the wrong road, and don't use a car filter on your bike, If it costs you a engine, you will be all aloan with a dead motor. | ||
| Froggy |
Bingo, many of the aftermarket filters that "fit" do not have the correct bypass pressure. | ||
| Greg_e |
I just used the stock filter so I didn't have to think. | ||
| Sloppy |
With regards to Fram - the "website" has been updated to show that the higher priced Fram filters are "better" than their other products. But, IMO, nowhere close to the quality of other brands, such as WIX (NAPA), AC or HD. I highly recommend NAPA - best value, IMO... but I still stay far away from Fram  | ||
| Id073897 |
many of the aftermarket filters that "fit" do not have the correct bypass pressure. Could you please explain what a "bypass pressure" is and how exactly engine lubrication is affected by it? | ||
| Sloppy |
Bypass pressure valves are there to "bypass" the oil past the filter in case their is insufficient flow through the filter. If the bypass is too low, you will get VERY dirty oil go into your engine. If the bypass is too high, you will starve your engine of oil. The lesson: Just because it fits it doesn't mean it should be in there. {Insert whatever gutter humor that may dance across your brain} | ||
| Jos51700 |
I refuse to install non-OEM filters on any bike. I've seen too many explode, implode, or just plain disintegrate internally. You're saving what? $3? $8? $10? Is that worth a $1500 motor? | ||
| Id073897 |
If the bypass is too high, you will starve your engine of oil. I don't understand that. If the bypass is too high, wouldn't this force the oil through the filter mesh instead of the bypass valve - just as required and designed? What's so bad with that, as you mentioned before that otherwise unfiltered oil would enter the engine? What happens to the oil that the engine will starve of oil? Whereto will it disappear? The oil pump is a gerotor pump. | ||
| Sloppy |
The bypass is built INTO the oil filter. Say you have cold thick oil, a plugged filter or pieces of gasket lodged into the filter. Unless there is a way for the oil to "bypass" the filter, there can be insufficient flow of oil through the filter. Hence, the engine can be starved of oil. The oil pump simply puts oil into the filter. If the filter doesn't flow enough oil, then the engine won't get the lubrication it requires. Oil doesn't go anywhere - it will just stay in the sump... As for OEM filters, the HD filters are fine, but I've opened up other brands of filters and their quality is better. Except for Fram... | ||
| Id073897 |
If the filter doesn't flow enough oil, then the engine won't get the lubrication it requires. Oil doesn't go anywhere - it will just stay in the sump... Which sump? There is no sump between the oil pump and the oil filter - would be quite contraproductive building pressure, wouldn't it? The gerotor oil pump delivers a constant volume of oil with each turn, regardless of the pressure at the outlet and is (via oil cooler) connected to the oil filter. So if less oil leaves the filter (as you mentioned) as enters it, what happens with the difference? | ||
| Glitch |
Just because it fits it doesn't mean it should be in there. That's what she said. didn't wanna let ya down  | ||
| Sloppy |
I understand where you are coming from now -- yes, you are correct. If the pump continued to run a closed system without any path for a bypass, it would increase in pressure until the pressurized lubrication system failed (media collapse, burst casing, oil cooler / distribution line burst, etc). I was "assuming" that before the above would take place, that the internal clearances of the pump would bleed the pressurized oil back on the intake (e.g., blowby) thereby reducing total flowrate PRIOR to a downstream failure. Not having experienced a catastrophic failure mode on gear pumps though, I went with my "assumption". Mea culpa. However, I can say that I have seen positive displacement rotary pumps(which do indeed have "clearance") have destroyed themselves. Just haven't seen it on gear pumps (YMMV).  So back to the original question - if the bypass on an oil filter is too high, will the pump bleed back on itself through the gear clearance or will the lubrication system suffer a failure instead? Don't know... Thanks for the line of questioning though - you got me thinking!!! | ||
| Chase12s |
I use wix in everything I drive, never heard or seen anything bad on them. | ||
| Nik |
Bingo, many of the aftermarket filters that "fit" do not have the correct bypass pressure. And many do. Just have to look up the specs and be sure. |
