| Author | Message | ||
     Froggy |
Yes in most cases it usually is discussed with the others. In this case, Fudge was already on thin ice with other moderators, and we are cracking down on trolls and douche canoes (mainly 1125R board), so I felt it was time to pull the plug. We aren't trigger happy mods that get a fix by banning people over nothing, otherwise I bet half of Badweb would be gone by now  I didn't mean to brag or anything about the number I have done, but it was a simple question that I didn't mind answering.  | ||
| Roysbuell |
My husband had the same thing happen from just hitting the brakes hard at 60mph on a new buell with less that 150 miles on it and the bike is set up right. If the bike only has 150 miles on it how is the suspension set-up correctly already? I am still fine tuning my suspension for my weight and riding style. The front brake is very touchy nothing like your softail 1340. If your husband is used to riding a Harley maybe his new toy is just too much for his experience and he should keep practicing in parking lots. If I hit my front brakes HARD I would be laid out on the road. These brakes can not just be grabbed. | ||
| Toecutter |
If the steering head bearings are too tight, or have gone bad, they can cause headshake, and if you have a habit of riding with no hands, the oscillations can increase exponentially until you have a tank slapper. | ||
| Delta_one |
every day I like to keep the engine moderately engaged and the suspension loaded as glitch said but I also feel that with feathering the clutch throttle and brake at the same time I can better control the bike. it also eliminates the on off transitions of using any of them independently. I trail brake most way through the corner while I gradually twist the throttle open and feather the clutch out overcoming the braking and gradually backing off the brakes. it makes for a very smooth transition, better than I can get using only one of the elements alone or even a pair of them together. with each added element comes a level of control where each critical window can be larger to get that perfect feel. I don't even think about it anymore just like learning to heal toe in a car, after not too long I was doing it all the time. clutch brake gas steering. its much easier on a motorcycle because I have each control in an independent extremity as opposed to working both the gas and brake with one foot and the clutch with the other. | ||
| Bads1 |
Go take a class then. Your dangerous and asking to get hurt. Don't care how long you have been riding. I'm not picking a fight.... trail braking doesn't belong on your day to day riding with traffic. | ||
| Bads1 |
And yes I can understand Glitch. He rides the mountains and such. | ||
| Delta_one |
I think you may have the wrong idea I don't do it to ride fast on the street I actually stick to speed limits sometimes even below it because I don't need tickets. No knees down or any crazy stuff just a choice of technique. | ||
| Bads1 |
Oil antifreeze,other elements thrown into the mix. Heaved concrete or asphalt.... your from Michigan.... loose gravel. | ||
| Drkside79 |
Not sure I understand this whole trail braking? If I'm going in too hot i have used my rear brake in a turn quite often. | ||
| Delta_one |
commonly a technique to raise corner entry speeds and braking through to the apex of a corner. I use it to stabilize the chassis of the bike and because I am a natural late braker. that is not saying that I come into corners on the street hot and slam on the brakes while driving into a corer, just that I like to just my brakes a little harder than most of my friends and think that the bike feels more stable with the back brake dragging through the corner. using a racing technique does not necessarily mean that you are going fast because you are using it. I engine brake my car and occasionally heal toe as well but am still driving well within the posted speed limits. I sometimes clutch-less up-shift too but that doesn't mean I am speeding. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
There may be some confusion here between trail braking and "backing it in". I would have to agree that if someone was "backing it in" to corners on the street routinely, then it should be considered dangerous riding. But trail braking and "hanging the back end out" are two different techniques. Trail braking is a technique that, when mastered, is just as useful on the street as on the track. However, "Sliding the rear" into a corner may be a technique that looks cool, and can help a racer in certain situations (like blocking the racing line), but the truth is whenever a bike is going sideways instead of forward it's not going as fast as it could. In most cases, "backing it in" is not the best technique for success on the track, and it's definitely not a good technique on the street. I have always trail-braked on a motorcycle, it's what came naturally to me- I didn't have to learn it. It would be very hard for me not to do it- I would have to concentrate if asked to stop doing it. To each their own. | ||
| Delta_one |
I am not "backing it in" "hanging the tail out" "drifting" or any other act that brakes traction. I have done it once or twice on dirt or other debris on the road and once or twice on purpose with other bikes on closed courses (both throttle induced and braking induced variety) and it was just way to hairy for me to ever consider trying again, much less on the streets. I can handle it in four wheeled vehicles on occasion for fun when my friends and I would get together and autocross or rally cross but I agree way to dangerous on the streets in any form with any vehicle. Redbuell do you happen to ride in the dirt as well? | ||
| Delta_one |
yup all of those, that's why the added stability granted by dragging the rear brake are nice. the ability to modulate one more thing to maintain traction helps quite a bit with our nasty roads, don't forget the pot holes either. | ||
| Midknyte |
One things for sure, there's no such thing as just a little tankslapper, is there? http://fishki.net/comment.php?id=67665 | ||
| Delta_one |
LOL that was great. here is another big one | ||
| Glitch |
Go take a class then. Total Rider Tech I'm not backing it in either. Keeping the suspension loaded helps a tremendous amount when the road is less than smooth. There's less chance of upsetting the suspension. It's true, just because you're trail braking, doesn't mean you going too fast. Also, if you're going in too hot, and have to brake in the turn, you're doing it wrong. It's best to have set up for the turn before entering it. I trail brake using the front brake though, I rarely us the rear brake. | ||
| Drkside79 |
I'm not claiming to be trail braking in fact until last night i had no idea what it is. I've only been on a street bike for a little over 3 years so i am still VERY green. I've just noticed that i can gently brake with my rear in a turn if i feel uncomfortable and typically i lean a little better and feel more stable. If this is catastrophically wrong let me know. I don't even know i am doing it at times | ||
| Swordsman |
Funny, my father-in-law was trying to teach me trail braking from the very beginning, though he didn't call it that. He used it on his old Sporty all the time. ~SM | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Redbuell do you happen to ride in the dirt as well? Spent a lot of time on a YZ80 as a kid in the 70's, but the only time I find myself riding in the dirt now is when I run out of track during a session at Jennings GP.  | ||
| Damnut |
You know I read most of this thread and I have to say that Badweb is getting worse and worse with the negative BS, putting people down and just the overall •••••• attitude. | ||
| Delta_one |
very true but it happens sometimes It happens to me more than I would like due to changing road surface in Michigan. Corners that were beautiful on one day will be absolute piss on another. and yes I can find myself going into a corner too fast at times or faster than I am comfortable with. I don't get it right EVERY time, I'm not perfect.
one of the reasons its great in Michigan and probably why I picked it up riding in the dirt.
this seems to be common with street riders, not sure why but the more street riders I talk to the more i find that they don't use the rear brake. But most of the dirt riders I know use it religiously. I've just noticed that i can gently brake with my rear in a turn if i feel uncomfortable and typically i lean a little better and feel more stable. If this is catastrophically wrong let me know. that's what I do and apparently its wrong. so Go take a class then. | ||
| Delta_one |
I feel the same way as of late, especially after feeling so attacked because of my riding style and technique. I don't know if it was projections brought on because of the "Troll" or what the reason was but it seems that I became the target of the day. my last post carries a negative tone, I'll apologize for that now because I am letting my frustration show of a forum thread. (Message edited by delta_one on April 09, 2010) | ||
| Glitch |
A lot of the tension may just be the written word not translating as well as spoken. That being said, I wasn't attacking you, not at all. I'm not perfect, quite the opposite. My point was and is, to set up before the turn. Also, the faster you're riding, the sooner you need to set up for that turn. That's all, please don't read anything else into it. I wasn't, nor am I, putting your riding style down, only sharing what I've learned, through classes, and experience. Dirt biking? Why yes I use the rear much, much more, and for obvious reasons, the front much less. On the street, the rear is near useless for braking power. It obviously has it's place, or it'd not have one. No need to apologize for the "negative" tone, you explained yourself very well I think. WRT to the trolls, they're trolls, they troll. Although WRT Sammy, I think she was much more of a Drama Mama than a troll. | ||
| Firebolt32 |
I was that target a few months ago Delta. Don't sweat it. Glitch is right though. It's hard to type what your saying without it seeming like your being an ass. With me though 9 times out of 10 if you read my comment and say "What a dick!" Your probably right. I'm an ass! lol I grew up riding dirt bikes. My 9R was my first street bike. I had to make a conscience effort every time I took it out not to solely use the rear break. After a few slides into a stop light and going through a set of break pads in 1K or so miles I learned pretty quick that there's a break by my right hand as well. | ||
| Roysbuell |
Delta- I'm with you on trail braking in a curve it can actually tighten up the corner if you do it right. BUT... you shouldn't be using the clutch at all in a curve. Try and get all the shifting done before you enter the corner that will give you better balance, one less thing to do and your bike will settle in the corner quicker. | ||
| Ourdee |
I trail brake in the figure eight box. | ||
| Delta_one |
I agree speed set and gear selected, just as true on bikes as in cages.
I didn't think you were glitch. maybe I am just a girl today  despite Bads1 assertion that he was not picking a fight it cam off as hostile and perhaps I read it wrong but being told that I was dangerous did not have that warm fuzzy feeling or come off as a neat top gun quote. But I am over it so no worries all. but again I may just be acting like a girl today  so if its the case please forgive. {That's all, please don't read anything else into it.} nope I'm good {break by my right hand as well.} yea I agree the transition was needed on my part too and I know that I still favor my rear brake, I get on it first and let off of it last but don't use it exclusively. I generate most of my stopping force with the front unless I am only rolling to a stop where I am mainly coasting dragging the rear.
I only use the front brake in the corner as a last resort, it makes me uncomfortable/nervous and I think that being uncomfortable with what you are doing can be just as dangerous as not knowing what you are doing.
you are probably right. I use the clutch to slip the engine a bit and keep it engaged without building speed in the corner or engine braking my back tire loose. its hard on clutch plates and most likely not proper. I like to keep my drive line engaged throughout the corner because it feels more stable and settled. I have gone into corners no brake/no clutch and combination of the two and the bike felt loose and twitchy, I dint care for it. a little throttle clutch mostly engaged and a little rear brake drag just feels stable to me. BUT I should probably work on loosing this habit this summer from the sound of it
with you 100% all very good and true comments guys keep em coming.  | ||
| Glitch |
I highly recommend http://www.totalridertech.com/ At the very least get the book Total Control by Lee Parks There are other good classes, and books. They're all good, but the technique each teaches is a little bit different. The main thing (for me) is to keep learning to be smoother. I learned a long time ago to quit trying to be fast, and work on being smooth. You'd be amazed at how much more you'll enjoy the ride. | ||
| Chessm |
can we go back to lambasting the person that blames the bike for someone else's in ability to use good brakes? | ||
| Glitch |
No, sorry. This thread has been officially been hijacked. |
