| Author | Message | ||
     Pso |
Posted on the Uly thread but very few answers. I do not know what happened to all the whiz bang techs and electrical folks over there. When I first start bike cold, idle voltage 12.3v, mid rpm 13.8-9 V. after rideing for about 15/20 Miles voltage dropped to about 12.3v. then after more riding voltage went below 12 to about 11.4/6.This patern has replicated on several multiple occasions over the last seveal days and seems to be getting worse. Any ideas or similar experiences. I had VR swapped out about 8-10K miles ago. No bad smell coming out of primary chain inspection hole tonight. Also voltage dropped appears to be sudden when it happens. (Message edited by pso on March 10, 2010) (Message edited by pso on March 10, 2010) | ||
| Sparky |
I'd have the stator checked out completely. If it checks out OK, then I'd check out the VR and the rest of the wire harness looking for any kind of wire insulation chafing or bare wires. Also especially check the connector between the stator and VR for any signs of charring or possible melting. How old is the battery? | ||
| Rays |
What Sparky has suggested + make sure you check the 77 Connector carefully. Many of them have obvious melting failures but mine was super-subtle and was causing intermittent charging similar to what you have described. If you can catch it when it isn't charging then try the wiggle test on both of the regulator connectors with the engine running (while your assistant holds the multimeter). I originally added my 77 connector doc but I just read your other post over in B.B & D so have deleted that because you have replaced that connector. I would definitely still look at your replacement connectors to eliminate them from the situation but given their heavy duty sort of construction that is probably unlikely. If you can get it to fail then I would also try and get an AC output measurement from the stator while it was hot and bothered. (Message edited by Rays on March 10, 2010) | ||
| Pso |
Thanks folks. I got a good multimater from the electrical shop at work and will check the stator first. If that checks out then the VR. Before I dig into either of them I will also check out all the connectors. I have the shop manual for the bike and read over the stator testing and vr testing which was excelent as usaly. I did find that the section for stator repalcement to less informative. I hope that is because it is very straight forward. Just remove shift leaver linckage, primary cover, remove sprocket (that is the front sprocket?) pull off magnet, remove bolts pull stator, replace stator, new bolts, rotor, sprocket, (w/updated torque spec)replace primary cover w/new gasket? Any thing I have left out tricks, tips etc. Also when I was sniffing (my age need to also have my wife sniffing) in the primary chain inspection window I found that the chain was way to tight, any chance this could be the culperate, will fix chain today. | ||
| Pso |
Folks/anyone following this thread. I took the connector from the stator to VR apart and it was toast. Looked like the inside of a well toasted #77 plug. I guess that is why once the engine got warm and current was flowing it would start to make a bad connection. I have never heard of this plug soing south on the 06/07's. Anyone else have this problem? I am probably going to hard wire the vr to the stator like I did when I replaced the #77 plug. What thinks you folks about this idea? Anyother suggestions would be grealy appreciated. | ||
| Rays |
So, we would have to give Sparky a 'bull's-eye' for that one.  I have heard of folk having that connector fail but have not seen it myself. On Kawasaki ZX-12's burning of the stator to regulator connector was very common - happened to mine and I ended up replacing the connector with three heavy-duty single spade connectors. However, the repair is located in the ducktail not down in the grot like the XB one is. You can get solid pins for those Deutsch connectors - these could be readily soldered rather than crimped and might be worth trying? | ||
| Pso |
Your right, Sparky gets a gold star. I had lost the #77 connector 1 1/2 years ago, but I had never heard of the connector between the Stator and regulator melting. I think perhaps the spade connector might be a good way to go, the entire plastic casing for the Deutsch is toasted. I I do go with a spade connector system, I guess I will use liquid electric tape to water proof it.Thanks for the idea, suggestion. | ||
| Al_lighton |
FYI, for those that have NOT put the new voltage regulator in (that comes with a new mated pair of 77 connectors), we're now stocking the mated pair of new 77 connectors. If you replace the connector BEFORE it goes bad, there is a good chance that the regulator won't fail to begin with, or at least not for the reasons that many have been. See http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/17390.html Al | ||
| Pso |
For the electronics folks. Am I required to connect the three wires from the stator to the same three wires going to the VR. I know it makes a difference with the #77 connector two wires, just not sure about the other plug. I will keep them the same in this hook up but it might get tricky if I need a new stator figuring out which wire will connect to which wire. I hope I am clear on the question.Another weekend proect looms. | ||
| Rays |
No, the three phase output from the stator can be any order. You are correct about the orientation of the DC output of the regulator - that is critical. BTW - if you do ever get the two black output wires confused you only need to measure each one to the metal case of the regulator (bare metal) - the negative lead is connected to the case internally in the regulator. | ||
| Pso |
Rays-thanks. Hooked the wires up, used spade connectors and I kept the same patern just because I did project before I read your note. Checked stator, all measures just fine (that is a relief). | ||
| Rkutzner |
Where is the #77 plug ? I'm having a similar problem. Battery is at 12.90V until I start then it goes to 12.2V. The more I rev the lower it goes, down around 10. Does this sound like it could be the same problem ? | ||
| Pso |
It is behind the front pully guard right side. It is the one with two wires going into it from the vr. Best if you had access to a shop manual with the photos. Also on the Uly section of this forum I think there are pics of the connector and all the repairs that have been done.Sure does sound like the VR or that plug to me. Good luck and keep us posted. | ||
| Rkutzner |
Thanks, I sure hope it's that simple. I do have a manual but wanted to search the forum. Needless to say, none of this is in there ! Bike is an 07 TT with around 8000 miles.....just can't imagine it would be the VR or stator. Will post back after I look at all the connectors ! | ||
| Rays |
Have a look through this - the '07 Ulys are identical in this area so I assume the TT's are as well. http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AflAL-QRJACkZDRy Ynh3cl8yMGRxNWtoZg&hl=en | ||
| Rkutzner |
Awesome link, will check it out this weekend. The TT is basically a Lightning Long (Ss) in 07 but I bet they're all the same in this area. Are their newer/improved stators and regulators out there ? I ride to work at 0530 most of the year and use a heated vest....wonder if that made the problem surface sooner ? | ||
| Pso |
Rkutzner-I checked w/Al at American Sport Bike he informed me that the new stator single pole does not transfer into the older 3 pole Buells. Seems like the connectors are the weaker parts. Buell has upgraded the connectors for later model Uly's. I also have read that it is better to run more electrics to burn off the excess electricty than to shunt it back to the stator. I have a question out to the board regarding the veracity of this statement. Keep us posted, good luck and f it is the connectors you will know as soon as you look in them. | ||
| Rays |
Richard, I first put that guide together a couple of years ago and if I remember correctly my Uly had about 16-17,000km on it. I have kept an eye on that connector and cleaned it a couple of times and have still not actually replaced it with new components (now 95,000km). I have probably been lucky but I also run a voltmeter that allows me to spot the normal charging voltage drop even slightly. The '06's have a 3-phase stator, permanent magnet rotor and a shunt regulator. This sort of alternator puts out maximum power all the time (compared to a variable rotor type that cars typically run) and the power is either consumed by the vehicle electrics, heated grips and other accessories or 'shunted' and dissipated through the regulator. So, is it better to run a higher electrical load to reduce the amount of current shunted internally in the regulator? Well, that would certainly seem to make sense but, (there's no free lunch) that would increase the current flowing through our old friend the '77 connector so it would have to be up to the task. Electrical connections have to be spot-on when you are dealing with heavier currents and even a slight amount of contact resistance can result in overheated pins and sockets. I make it part of my 16,000km service intervals to inspect, clean and re-seat both the 77 and the 46 connectors and so far, (touch wood) this has been a successful strategy. | ||
| Rkutzner |
Great advice ! My 77 connector had some light white buildup and I cleaned it. No sign of overheating or arcing yet. Also noted the grey 3 pin connector(red, white, black wires) had a wire on the bottom (red) that had worn through on the plastic cover. Not sure if it was arcing anywhere but taped it up real good and covered that last inch of exposed wire with mucho black tape. It's charging at 14.3V at idle and also when revved so I think I dodged that bullet. With the vest, volts drop to 14.05 at high setting, 14.10 at medium and 14.15 at low setting. I plan to get the connector replacement, looks too easy not to do. So THANK YOU ALL as I don't think going through the troubleshooting in the manual would have surfaced this. It's always good to check on a forum, I've posted some how-tos myself on Jeep and dirt bike forums so it's great to get some payback !!! | ||
| Pso |
Sounds like you dodged the bullet. Congratulations | ||
| Rkutzner |
Getting the regulator with included connector kit.....I'm going to put it on and keep the other as a spare that I hope I'll never have to use. | ||
| Pso |
Do you have the pecial tool to use for crimping the wires in the Deutsch type connectors? Also probably want to purchase a spare connector kit to put onto the old regulator that is going to be a spare. | ||
| Rkutzner |
Good idea on the extra connector kit. I saw the crimper tools are out of this world expensive. How are you all getting it done ? Anyone renting theirs out ? (Message edited by rkutzner on March 19, 2010) | ||
| Pso |
R-If you find one or a source please let me know. I also need to use one but I am not purchasing at that price. Anyone know about Autozone renting to use w/a full refund like other tools? I have my spare regulator set up with a deutsch for the stator and I have the wires for the batter with the ends connected with sump pump butt connectors. I put a piece of red tape around the wire that will connect to the red wire going to the battery. Thus if I need to replace the regulator on the road I can just crimp it to the battery and then plug in the stator. | ||
| Rkutzner |
How's everyone else doing this ? I found a place you can rent one for $25/week.....plus shipping..... https://www.wirecare.com/deutschdt.asp?selectedCon tacts=2&theSeries=DTP | ||
| Sparky |
Whew! If it were me, I'd just solder them. (Message edited by Sparky on March 21, 2010) | ||
| Rkutzner |
Solder seems to be the easy answer, but might rent that tool. The new regulator arrived with a complete connector kit. And the new regulator has the newer connector so I can put a connector on the old regulator that I think is still good with buying another connector kit ! Once I solder I'm afraid the wires will be too short if I ever want to go to connectors. And I can think of a few things I'd like to use good connectors like that on....like easy to reach battery charging on all my bikes and something else on my dirt bike. In the meantime, picked up a Kuryakyn LED Battery gauge so I can monitor this while I'm riding...of course that means if the cleaned contact is good I won't be in any hurry to fix this....hehehe...... | ||
| Rkutzner |
Kuryakyn LED guage is QUALITY. Very nice, even adjusts brightness for day/night. Very small, can put anywhere. On my VRod I put it under the clamshellj where you can't even see it and the light reflects off the anodized aluminum ! | ||
| Pso |
My Escort Passport 8500 has a digital readout out of voltage down to 10ths. Also my Garmin has same feature. I also have audable warnings that I can set when voltage drops below a predetermined level. They are both very nice but the problem is that when the voltage drops from 14.1 to 13.9 my over active brain (neurotic tendancies) kicks in. | ||
| Rkutzner |
No doubt there's limits but it's a warning system and would have saved me a battery had I ANY idea my system had gone from 14.3 to 12.2V when running. Any warning can be easily checked by that overactive brain by turning a key, popping the seat, and checking the voltage. | ||
| Pso |
Side note as a rsult of getting the #46 connector correctd. I no longer have that slight pause when starting the bike that I have had fro several years now. I guess I was probably never getting a full or complete recharge on battery. Only a guess on my part. I do not believe there are such things as electrons. | ||
| Rkutzner |
I've had that same pause. Boy I hope this fixes it ! I bid on a 'like new' crimper and got it for $206 on ebay amid much competition. I'm planning to do this and then make up some nice connections for all my bikes for rotating my trickle charger over the winter. Then I may or may not sell. I haven't seen one go for under $175 used yet and some have gone over $250....so who knows, I may make some money ! Anyone near Westminster, MD need to use it ? | ||
| Pso |
I am in Easton , Md. Would like to use it one or two times. Want to make a dongle type connector simple plug in to check error codes and also a back up connector for vr with wires for the #46 plug so that if I ever swap out the VR I have an easy connection to the stator wires. |
