| Author | Message | ||
     Jraice |
So after reading some Redline tech articles I am still thoroughly confused on what to get. So seems pretty standard that the motorcycle 20W50 oil is the way to go... Curious, whats different from the regular 20W50 and the motorcycle? But for the tranny I want to use a specific oil (not engine oil) but can't figure out what to use. My father uses the regular transmission oil (heavy) in his 96in Hog... but one article seemed to say to use the light weight tran oil in it. Is this the correct oil for a 2009 Buell XB12 transmission? Thanks  | ||
| Toecutter |
So far, I'm a fan of Formula+ It is a high quality conventional oil. I have noticed drastically improved shifting and neutral finding over the Syn3. You only have to change the Formula+ every 10,000 miles. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I won't say anything beyond that the amount of smoke and mirrors from the premium oil sellers is epic. So I would take anything they say with a grain of salt... There is a real difference between synthetic and non synthetic. The differences between there get... a lot less clear... | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
20W-50 motor oil is approved for use in your primary by Buell. There are oils that are superior to the SYN3 recommended by H-D. I use a 100% fully synthetic oil designed specifically for use in my XB12R's engine and primary- Amsoil MCV 20W-50. It works so well that Blackstone Labs suggested that I increase my oil change interval from 12 months to 15 months because the oil was "like new"- and this was after one year and 688 miles (six track days) on a track only bike. If Red Line says its oil is approved for use in your primary, then you should be fine. It will certainly be better than the semi-synthetic SYN3. | ||
| Bumblebee |
It's pretty much 20/50 all around in these. I really think anything will work, Redline or Amsoil are good choices. | ||
| Sloppy |
I've used multiple Redline Oil products in the tranny. They work as well as any other oil in the tranny so based upon cost, I would NOT recommend it.. I recommend Mobil1 15w-50 in the tranny - not only is it an engine oil, but ALSO a certified GL-4 gear oil (and yes, it's stator friendly). GL-5 oils are typically not stator friendly. | ||
| Greg_e |
I used Mobile 1 V-twin which is also JASO approved for motorcycles, seems to be a good choice so far but I only have a handful of miles on the fresh change (and it was 21 degrees F this morning so no riding anytime soon). | ||
| Sloppy |
JASO DOES NOT mean it's okay for motorcycles!!! JASO is the JAPANESE AUTOMOTIVE STANDARD ORGANIZATION. See - it doesn't even say "motorcycle" motorcycle in the name!!! It's similar to API or SAE. While there is nothing wrong with JASO, the Buell's were designed under API standards, hence the API "C" requirement for air cooled Buells. As long as you use an API "C" oil of the right viscosity, you'll be fine. | ||
| Vospertw |
Sloppy - I was poking around the Mobil website; although they say the oil would still satisfy CD and CF requirements, they are not recommended any longer (and no longer shown on container) because modern diesel engines have moved on to other standards (CG, CH, CI). Obviously they want people using their newer diesel formulations for vehicles requiring those new standards. Like you said though, still satisfies CF requirements. Downside I guess is that if you had a warranty problem, you can't point to "CF" on the container. However, I couldn't find any reference to being a certified GL-4 gear oil - got any info on where that can be found? | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Forumla+ is a mineral oil with very few additives, is in the 50 weight viscosity range, and is a GL-1 lube. H-D Formula+ Published Specification per www.bobistheoilguy.com: Harley Davidson Formula+ Application: recommended for heavy-duty service in manual transmissions where the manufacturer normally recommends either engine oils or GL-1 lubricants. Specific Gravity: 0.857 Pounds per Gallon: 7.14 Viscosity, ASTM D 445, cSt at 40°C: 168.04 cSt at 100°C: 20.10 Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 139 Brookfield Viscosity, ASTM D 2983, cP at -26°C - 28,800 cP at -40°C - n/m Pour Point, ASTM D 97, °F (°C): -60 (-51) Flash Point, ASTM D 92, °F (°C): 507 (264) Amsoil MCV 20W-50 meets or exceeds the following requirements: API SG, SL/CF, CG-4; JASO MA/MA2; ISO-L-EMA2; API GL-1 (SAE 90). Amsoil 20W-50 Published Specification per www.amsoil.com: TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES SAE 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (MCV) Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 20.56 Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 152.0 Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 161 Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97) -39 (-38) Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) 240 (464) High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity @ 150°C , 1.0 x 106 s-1 (ASTM D 4683), cP 6.02 Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172 @ 40 kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hour), Scar in mm 0.37 FZG (ASTM D-5182), Load Stage Pass (Wear in mm) 13 (0mm) Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) 3.89 Foam (ASTM D-892, Sequence I, II & III) 0/0/0 Shear Stability Kurt Orbahn (ASTM D-6278), % viscosity change 120 cycles 0.25 Rust Test - Humidity Cabinet (ASTM D-1748) No Rust, Pass Total Base Number 11.1 | ||
| Greg_e |
You might want to look up JASO-MA and MB some time. Then go read some of the oil FAQs posted in a long thread up in the quick board. And you might also want to note that I said JASO for motorcycles in my post above. I'll save you a small bit of time... JASO-MA is oil specification for 4 cycle motorcycles and gear boxes without the friction modifiers that may cause problems with wet clutches. JASO-MB is the same except it has friction modifiers added not sure about wet clutch issues. The Mobile 1 V-Twin is also several "C" ratings and several of the older "S" ratings (before the friction modifiers were added). So now tell me once again that I don't know what I'm talking about. Jraice, if you want to be 100% correct by the service manual, then put in the correct Harley oil to be safe. I chose the V-Twin oil because I can go into several different auto stores and grab it off the shelf, it is also what they claim to be fully synthetic and suitable for wet clutches. I'll let you know at the end of the summer if it was a mistake or not. | ||
| 996dl |
Jraice, the important issue with using Redline or any other brands gear oil, is to ensure it's the GL-4 classification NOT THE GL-5 !!! The GL-4 is for manual transmissions (use of brass in bushings and roller cages etc.) the GL-5 formulations have additional additive packages, that are corrosive to non-ferris metals ie: the copper in alternator windings, brass in bushings and some bearing cages/shifter forks etc. So Redline's 75/90W GL-4 designated gear oil would be your choice in their lineup for the primary/trans... Common knowledge in automotive circles, but I was unaware of it as well, until warned of it on this forum. Talked in depth, to verify the information, with a Royal Purple factory tech rep as well... 996DL (Message edited by 996dl on March 27, 2010) | ||
| Nobuell |
I talked to a Redline engineer recently. He recommended their MT90 Gear lube. It is a GL-4 lubricant. He also said that 20W-50 will work but it is a bit thick for the Buell transmission and clutch. The MT90 is more like 40 weight in viscosity. I plan on using the MT90 and their 20W-50 V Twin oil next change. | ||
| Sloppy |
Greg - I never said you don't know what you're talking about... and you never mentioned in your post which JASO rating... so don't shoot the messenger!  I was just sharing the common misconception that JASO = MOTORCYCLES. IT IS NOT. JASO is a JAPANESE standard - and they have MANY standards, a FEW of which relate to motorcycles (BOTH 4 and 2 STROKE!). You are MORE than welcome to review ALL their standards (for a nominal fee). http://www.bookpark.ne.jp/jsae/book_e.asp But since the Buell was DESIGNED for API standard oils, you should make sure that the oil fulfills the API standard, and not the JASO standard. If they do both, then great. That's all I'm sharing (and Buell's recommendation!) As for the "C" designation requirement, the reason is that they carry higher detergent qualities which is required for both diesel (higher soot content) and Buell air cooled engines (higher blow-by). Note on Redline - they have changed their recommendations 4+ times over the past few years, so I'm a bit cautious with them... I use Mobi1 15-50 in both holes and am very pleased with results and availability. | ||
| Nickh |
@sloppy How long/how many miles have you put on the bike with the 15W50? -Nick- | ||
| Sloppy |
About 20,000 miles on Mobil1 15-50. I'd suggest you use whatever you have easy access to. Syn, Ams, Red, F+, RP -- they're all good. | ||
| Greg_e |
That's one reason I went with the Mobile 1 V-twin, Adavance Auto and AutoParts both carry it so I should never have an issue getting it. They also had the Mobile 1 4T cycle oil on the shelves for those that want a different oil, the 4T was actually a lot cheaper too. Got the V-Twin on sale for $7.50 each quart, figure I probably won't put enough miles on it to have to change it this summer, I normally only put about 6+ on the car during the warmer weather so I expect similar on my cycle, probably check it mid way through to see how dark the stick looks and change if I feel it should be changed since the last idiot never did change the gearbox oil I kind of expect it may need attention part way through. | ||
| Jraice |
Redline tech said to use a 75W90 gear oil... But thats GL-5. He said MT90 is similar but is GL-4 but Harley recommends the GL-5. Any input? I could use regular 20W50 but I want to try a gear lube... sounds like MT90 is the way to go though. Thank! | ||
| Toecutter |
Whoa! Formula+ is GL-1? So is there a consensus, that because of the shared primary/transmission of the XB, that a GL-4 should really be used here? | ||
| Jraice |
Any input on the shock proof light? Thats the oil Al is carrying and I plan to order the engine oil and filter etc... from him... | ||
| Sloppy |
I've used Shock Proof light and will say that it does give more power through less parasitic drive line loss (around 15%!). Note that this is from the butt dyno... so YMMV. I've also used their "heavy" as well, but it didn't have the perceived power that the "light" did. But... Shock Proof leaves a "waxy", candle like residue in the needle bearings. Very odd. And according to RedLine, the Light should not be used for long term use. Supposedly Redline's GL-5 gear oil DOES NOT corrode brass / copper. Can't say it will eat your stator or not, sorry. There's NOTHING wrong with using any of the other products out there. So if you don't mind being a test mule, try the Redline gear oil. BTW, I never noticed a large difference in shifting performance with any of the oils - so I don't think it makes that big of a difference. | ||
| Jraice |
Hmm interesting. Al said the same thing about the shock proof... well he said I should use something else every few changes... That seems quite odd though that it would cause problems like that. | ||
| Sparky |
I would argue against using Redline Shockproof Light in Buell trannys because of the green waxy residue that eventually precipitates on the stator coils, causing the coils to overheat and subsequently short out. This has happened to my S3 and S1 as well as others reporting on this forum after using this oil. | ||
| Jraice |
Thanks... I bought the light and will use it for this interval (2,500-5,000 miles) but I will use MT90 or Formula+ next time... |
