| Author | Message | ||
     Gunut75 |
Well, I took out the plugs today, and the rear plug took a few threads with it. I'm so pissed right now! Anyone have any magical ideas? Or should I start tearing the F-IN bike apart tomorrow? Whats the next step? Pull the motor? These are the original plugs, and there is NO evidence of anti-sieze. I am one tooth grinding guy right now!!!!!!!! I think I'm going to take a 24 hour break!  | ||
| Gunut75 |
Beer thirty! I'm aware of time-serts, and helicoils. Using the search turned up head removal as my main option. Has anyone done this with just rotating the motor, and not pulling the frame? I'm even considering a new head. Go figure, get a bike in near perfect condition, and this happens!........ Cant talk anymore.....gotta go!    | ||
| Greg_e |
Going to have to pull the head if you are going to put in a helicoil. How much is really missing? If the seat is good and there is more than half the thread left, you could probably just run a thread repair tool over it to smooth it ut and keep going until it gets worse. Then deal with the repair. | ||
| Gunut75 |
Im guessing I have to rotate the engine to get access to it. I'll find out tomorrow when I have my service manual. I left it at the shop. | ||
| Patagonia_101 |
You only have to rotate the engine to get the cylinder heads off...no engine removal. It's a simple job if you have some basic tools and a service manual. | ||
| Bartimus |
Calling Dr. Greg! Dr. Greg is considered an expert in this area as he had to do it to his '06 Uly I believe. He documented the whole procedure somewhere here on the Badweb, I think it's in the Big, Bad, Dirty section. | ||
| Gunut75 |
Thanks, I'll look into that.  | ||
| Gunut75 |
I met Dr. Greg at Homecoming last year. I also have a lift (one of the big gray ones) to get the bike up next to me. I'll start pulling it apart tomorrow, and get the head off. My muffler is already off for a repaint. Wheels are coming off for new tires. AND At least the roads are covered in salt shyte so I wont be riding anywhere soon. I suppose she did this to me to get a full detail too.....................  | ||
| Greg_e |
I tried the search and it returned a completely blank page, been getting a lot of them lately when I try to search. Wish I had a lift, would make everything so much easier. | ||
| Gunut75 |
I just got the same thing from it. Now I'm thinkin about head mods. A "while your in there" type of thing...........................STEP AWAY FROM THE FAT TIRE ALE!!!!!!!!!!  | ||
| Azxb9r |
How many threads did it tear up? As Greg e mentioned, if most of the threads are still okay you can chase the threads with a tap (coat it with grease first to catch any metal pieces) and run a new plug back in. | ||
| Greg_e |
Might as well do a port, polish and valve unshroud, maybe larger valves, maybe roller rockers, Titanium springs... How much of your money can I spend. There comes a point where you might as well buy racing heads that already have all this work done to them. Might as well toss a temp sender in the head while you have it out. Might keep you from swearing at it in the future and it is relatively cheap. Don't forget the new exhaust gaskets and might as well check and maybe replace the exhaust studs while you are there. If you put a helicoil in I want to know how well it goes. Never had to use one on a spark plug, but put in plenty when I had my Beetle to beef up where the studs went into the block. The helicoil added about twice the surface area so the cylinder studs could hold a lot more before pulling out of the block. | ||
| Pogue_mahone |
greg e how old a vw did you have? only the really old ones did not have case savers(factory heli coil type inserts for the head studs) never ever had any case saver issues but a few blown out plugs usually on cylinder 3.the bastard child of the vw 4 engines. the 1200 40 horse motors came with case savers.yours a 36 or 25 HP engine? | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Can't speak for XB's but the Time-serts and another thread repair from Calvan are recommended for my Ford when/if it blows plugs out of the heads: "The Calvan kit has a much thicker insert that can be used when other thinner repairs like the Heli-coil has failed to hold." The above is quoted from the tool description and user instructions that turned up in my search on blown plug repairs on my truck. Maybe overkill in this application, I don't know. http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_12997/fo rd_spark_plug_blow_out_problems_how_to_repair.html | ||
| Gunut75 |
I can see into the hole, and there is quite a bit of material left in there. Lot of boogers too. The plug seating surface looks fine. The plug that came out has aluminum on the three threads closest to the electrode. A lot of aluminum. I'll start by chasing the hole with a tap and if I think it will be ok, I'll go with it. If I have to tear into it, I probably will do some light mods to them. Just a porting to bump it up a hair. I dont want to sacrifice the dependability of the motor. She only has 12200 mi. on her. Exhaust gaskets, and studs are already in the works. If I end up porting the heads, I will obviously need a remap........... Header is half polished. Might as well finish that while its off the bike. I'm guessing I should order up some gaskets. Heeeere we go! | ||
| Greg_e |
Mine was a 76 and the hot thing was to "deep stud" the case which required extra coils down inside. I also had several that came out while I was pulling the studs, the 76 used a combination of inserts and stepped studs so most of them had a larger diameter on the case end to help eliminate the need for inserts, made manufacturing easier. Never had a problem with the plugs, but then every time I had to change them I would pull the motor since it only took 20 minutes to pull. It's one of those cars that needs to be added back to my stable if I can ever get things back in order. | ||
| Iman501 |
wow this is not good! i'm going to attempt to change mine today after shcool....any hints on how to not do this? or are u just unlucky? | ||
| No_rice |
just a side note, people have tried porting and polishing the xb heads before. they seem to have a hard time improving on the preformance of whats already there. many times it just ends up detrimental to the performance... it has been accomplished, but not without changing alot of other internal motor parts to go along with the heads. | ||
| Poppinsexz |
Just to add. I put antiseize on mine when I changed them, just for this problem. | ||
| Greg_e |
It calls for copper O2 and catalyst safe antiseize. As far as tips go, don't cross thread them. After that there is really very little you can do to prevent what is already in there from causing problems. How about high ratio rockers? Any improvements without also doing the cams? | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Tim, you're mirroring the advice I gave him earlier today over the phone. Porting the heads without a larger throttle body & dyno tuning just isn't going to do much of anything. The XB heads flow very well as is. I've never heard of anyone doing high ratio rockers. | ||
| No_rice |
damn you, why were you in my brain!!! and i need to give you a call later anyway. looks as though im out for homecoming, or most of it at the least | ||
| Steve_mackay |
why were you in my brain!!! There is no friggin' way in HELL I'm ever in YOUR brain! just wanted to make sure every one was clear on this  Screw the wedding... She'll get married again  | ||
| No_rice |
and its kind of the, change one part you need to change the rest thing if you want to gain anything with a change... | ||
| No_rice |
Screw the wedding... She'll get married again lmao, i hate to say it, but i see that coming already.  he's just gives me a bad vib(always has). and as much as it sucks to say, its very very rare for me to be wrong when it comes to that. he's shown his true spots a few times but has been able to pull the wool back over her eyes. but the older brother thats had to bail her out of everything her whole life doesnt know anything. before they moved off to alabama(said he had a job there but really didnt) then georgia where he kind of has a job, i told him that my hand reaches farther then he could ever imagine. one call from my sister and there would be a knock on his door before he even knew what was going on. she kept telling me she wouldnt be mad if i wasnt in her wedding... uh huh... ya... i know that game all to well. damn women. | ||
| Ourdee |
Bring her to HomeComing. It will be more fun for her than the wedding. | ||
| Jramsey |
Do not use a standard 12x1.25 tap on any spark plug thread because it will cut the threads .017mm or .007" loose. A true spark plug tap size measures 11.81mm. Find tap that is made for tapping for spark plugs only and their usually only thru a specialty tap supplier. If no more than 3 threads are pulled buy a thread chaser and bump the motor over till the exhaust valve is open on the that cylinder and run an air hose up the tail pipe while chasing the threads. Good luck. | ||
| Ourdee |
Iman501, Put anti seize on the threads of the new plugs. Use a foot of fuel hose to put the rear plug in. Turn it at least three turns with the hose prior to using a wrench on it. I put it in as far as possible with the hose. | ||
| Ourdee |
Ian, If you get in a bind and need a second hand lifting the motor back in give me a shout. I'm only 50 miles away. I am not an expert or even real good at fixing bikes but I'll help if I can. | ||
| Iman501 |
alright guys thanks for the advice between this thread and the ignorant one i started about "tips on cold starts", i was in town the other day and just picked up some stock plugs for the bike, and put them in today. it went pretty smoothly. You all were right though, that rear one was a PITA! i didnt have a swivel so i made a ran to menards and got one, went much better from that point. I did put anti-sieze on them as well! I didnt have a hose to use so i just put it in with the wrench carefully. it took some paitence, but i got it. my bike started up first try, and it will now stay off untill i'm ready to ride it! |
