| Author | Message | ||
     800mxz |
Just wanted to ask if anyone is using the nic-a-sil plated cylinders on their Buells. I mean, I can see the large gains in headwork, carb, etc... that I got quoted, but not sure about the cylinders. I have built race snowmobiles for years and we have run steel sleeves vs Nic-a-sil on the same engine and have never seen any power advantages. Some cooling, some durability, but at the cost of another $1200 it might be hard to justify. How do you all feel in regards to comparing S2 heads, 1250 kit, 42 Mik, Dyna Ign, and cams vs stage 3 heads, Cams, Dyna, 42mm Mic, and full exhaust? | ||
| Buckinfubba |
800 it is alot about the cooling advantages, especially on these air cooled babies. plus cool means better performance...and a heck of a good chance at better reliabilty | ||
| Blake |
Revolution Cylinders from NRHS are only $350 a piece or $700 per pair. Don't know where you got the $1,200 figure. Maybe you added the cost of pistons, rings, and gaskets? Being able to go to 1250cc's via nicasil lined cylinders is worth an extra 4% or so across the board versus 1200cc stock displacement. That's a pretty significant performance improvement. S2 heads are stock Sportster heads. They won't compare to the performance you can get out of a set of XB heads or even Thunderstorm heads. Port and blend those and you get another significant jump in performance capability. Notice I said "capability." Without the right combination of cams, exhaust tracts, intake, and carb, the heads will not contribute to their true potential. You can get great low end and mid-range from a set of S2 heads though. So if you are not so interested in the peak HP or revving to 7,000 rpm, you can get some darn good performance from your stock heads and the right combination of cams and exhaust. It just depends on what exactly you are after. | ||
| 800mxz |
Sorry about the confusion, but I meant Stage 2 porting, not S2. Sorry all | ||
| 800mxz |
Got my price from Revolution themselves. So you all know, Brad Nallin has moved his operations to Millenium Tech and has started it under a new buissnes name. http://www.revperf.com/home.aspx | ||
| Spiderman |
You will wear out rings before you ever even touch the cylinders. That Nic-a-sil is some wicked cool stuff. | ||
| Blake |
Aaron at NRHS sells Millenium cylinders for $350 ea. It's "Brian" Nallin. Either Aaron or Brian will tell you exactly what you can expect from whatever package you want to consider. It's up to you to decide if the extra money is worth the price. You'll do as good or better with a set of new XB heads than with a porting job on a set of S2/Sportster heads, and you can keep your stock pistons and cylinders, just get the cylinders rehoned and slap some new rings on the pistons. You'll also need a new front engine mounting bracket that NRHS can also provide. If it were me, I'd go with a set of stock XB heads and SE cams, stock pistons and cylinders, new rings, a slip-on and a selectable curve ignition module to start. Sell the stock heads and cams on ebay for a good sum. Later, you can easily upgrade to the 1250 kit and then have the XB heads ported. When you do that you can sell your stock cylinders and pistons for a good sum on ebay. | ||
| 800mxz |
The figure I was given (1250) was for 1250 kit (jugs, pistons, gaskets, etc...). I really wanted to know the real word benefits of the cylinder. I understand that they heat up quicker, and conduct heat better (no thick sleeve of steal). I wanted to know the real world benifits of adding the 50cc, vs spending $1200 on something else. For that kind of money, I could re-build the top end and put another $1000 into porting, more aggressive cams, full exhaust instead of just the cylinders. As far as my bike, it has Thunderstorm heads. | ||
| Rocketman |
I can tell you for a fact that the old American Air Cooled, Millenium or Revolution cylinders are far superior in every aspect, be it static or performance wise than anything stock on any Buell. The performance gain is perhaps only in the cylinders ability to stay in shape but they are virtually indestructible and should last the lifetime of your Buell or you, unless you ram a broken rod through them like I did <grin>. Me, I'm considering going 1430cc if I'm spending more money having to buy replacement cylinders and pistons, unless someone comes up with an early stock AAC cylinder for me sometime soon to replace my damaged one. Rocket | ||
| Aaron |
Dave ... if I may interject ... something a very wise person taught me a few years back, and I find it very applicable to this exact situation, is that the power of the motor is not defined by the sum total of it's go-fast parts, but rather the part that's holding it back. It's like a chain, the strength is determined by the weakest link, and making other links stronger doesn't make it stronger, you have to strengthen the weakest link. So to answer this question, you have to ask "is the displacement or the ring seal holding my motor back?" Not always an easy question to answer. I've seen LOTS of times when more displacement doesn't yield more power. It'll only give you more power if there's adequate breathing to fill that cylinder. Likewise if the rings are currently sealing well, you're not likely to see any gains from the straighter cylinders. Bottom line, whether a 1250 kit helps or does nothing for you depends on what's currently holding you back. Here's something else to muddy the waters ... thunderstorm heads are all over the map. I've seen bone stock T-storms that'd support over 100hp, and I've seen others hold a motor back in the low 80's. But here's some food for thought ... absolutely true story. A week ago, a fella brought an X1 into the shop. It already had a 1250 kit, a set of SE .536 cams (with the matching springs), a race kit exhaust, race ecm, power commander, and Forcewinder. We warmed it up good, rolled it onto the dyno, and pulled it a total of 10 times. It mustered a whopping 89hp, i.e. only slightly better than a good stocker. WTF? All these good parts and it only runs a little better than a good stocker? He had a variety of parts that were capable of supporting much more power, but unfortunately, he had a set of heads that was limiting the power to 89. It didn't matter what else he did, what good parts he put on it, that was gonna be pretty much it until he addressed the heads. We yanked the heads and did a Stage 2 job (1.850 intake, 1.615 exhaust, CNC porting). The only other thing we did was some gasket swapping to tighten up his squish, we put it in the .035 range. Immediately the bike broke 100hp. After some very minor tweaks to the a/f at 100% throttle position (he hadn't bought a full dyno tune), we got this pull ...  ... and we rolled it off the dyno. Classic example of the theory of constraints ... the additional displacement and cams and pipe etc weren't doing much for him because the heads were holding him back. Fix the heads and voila, the thing makes power. Anyway, that's my .02. |
