| Author | Message | ||
     Easyrider |
Just my 2 cents. BE aware that the map that comes in the race ECM is not that good. It is even worse then the stock map. The mention of this product is to put your bike directly on the dyno and tune it, It is not made to drive it. | ||
| Strongbad |
The cal is alpha-n based and does not use the O2 sensors. The map in the ECM will be specifically for the buell full exhaust system and is very good. Easy, I think you are referring to the map that came in the previous race ecm's which was only a stock map. The ecm's didn't ship with the full exhaust cal downloaded, but it was available on the CD. Also for the record, none of the maps from the factory (even the stock ones) utilized the speed density system. They are all alpha-n based. | ||
| Easyrider |
Strongbad, Before I see the picture off the dyno room where this map is made, I still believe it is not that good. And even when I see a picture of the dyno room, I still wonder who made IT. Until now I have never seen a good ECM product. I wonder then what changed, and why now it should be good. I still recommend people to double check it on the dyno. It is expensive to change a engine. | ||
| Crswede |
Just a thought ! Which modern Laptop got a serial port ? | ||
| Jules |
You can buy USB to RS232 converters online, that'll give you a serial port.. | ||
| T_man |
IMO The only real question here is; what kind of map comes on the 'plug & play' unit? Only a wideband dyno run back to back with stock will tell. | ||
| Duggram |
True the USB to RS232 will work, but on some Windows systems it's a pain to get working. I got mine working but it was a hassle. Wish the rest of the world used Macs too. Good luck. | ||
| Froggy |
Windows Vista/7 have the driver, you literally just plug in the cable and let it do its thing. You can go into device manager to confirm what COM port it is emulating, in case if you are running into difficulty getting ECMspy to connect. I would imagine its the same with the Buell programming. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Ordered mine. I'll let ya'll know what the deal is when it arrives. | ||
| Strongbad |
Easy, Have you ever used a Buell race ecm with the daytona sportbike cal installed? It is the same cal that will come preloaded in these ecms. So if you have a Buell exhaust and the previous race ecm, give it a try. Only change is that the dsb cal on the CD is for Sunoco 260GTX fuel, but simply increasing the global fuel to run pump gas will get you pretty close. | ||
| Littlebutquick |
To get the computer to connect to the bike was a not easy i tried 3 computers be for it would connect .all the new modern ones with usb even with a converter would not work it was an old one my brother had in the loft that had a serial port and run on coal that worked .so you need old skool  | ||
| 99buellx1 |
If you buy business class machines, not home user machines like at Best Buy, you can get a Serial port. | ||
| Slaughter |
I keep getting cheapies on Flea-Bay. Since they get so beat up, greasy and all, it's kinda nice just using a $100 laptop. You don't have to mess with adapters - just plug-and-chug. And yes, the new, good business-and-industrial class laptops do come with RS232, DB9 serial ports. | ||
| Captain_america |
I've got a good driver download that will make 99% of all USB to Serial converters work with windows. Its an automatic install my electrical engineer came up with. I also have a 9 yr old dell laptop that I use strictly for tuning cars... It has a Serial port | ||
| Slaughter |
SOME of the signals coming in are greater than 5V - and the standard USB/RS232 converter adapter might not work. | ||
| Easyrider |
Strongbad, Are you telling me that the current Buell race ecm has a daytona sportbike calibration installed? Becuase you say (It is the same cal that will come preloaded in these ecms.) And that is the one for the Sunoco 260GTX fuel. If that is true, the bike will NOT run on normal gasoline. and what you cal (simply increasing the global fuel) is for me 4 days of work. | ||
| Strongbad |
If you are using PCM Tool that comes with the Race ECM it should be a 4 second job, it is only one parameter. The cal in the ECM from EBR will be modified to run on pump gas but it started life as the daytona sportbike cal. You just need to account for the extra oxygen in pump gas from the ethanol that is added. We have found that increasing the global fuel about 6-7% will do the trick. | ||
| Easyrider |
Strongbad, Please please, what the hell are you talking about. (We have found that increasing the global fuel about 6-7% will do the trick.) So you are telling me now that the Map in the current ECM, is an upgrade on the Sunoco 260GTX fuel, With only adding 6-7% of Fuel. Please don't tell me this is true. | ||
| Strongbad |
Have you ever used 260GTX? It isn't this ultimate race fuel that is extremely different from pump gas. We have had nearly the same results using 260GTX and pump gas by merely adjusting global fuel. This map is also intended for the race track. I don't know if you have ever created a map for the track, but racing is an entirely different type of riding than putting around on the street. They are tuned for peak power and smooth throttle transitions, not good steady state drivability and fuel consumption. So if to the racer, the bike feels the same with one fuel to another then what difference does it make how that was achieved? A particular air fuel ratio is only important at WOT where we want to make peak power, everywhere else is tuned by rider feel and can fall anywhere from 12 to 14.5 depending on what we are looking for. You can attack methods all you want, but I think Buell's factory racing results over the past 2 years speak for themselves. | ||
| Easyrider |
Strongbad, I think you used the 104 RON, yes I used it, in our race bikes and my Prostock bike i ride myself. It is the only fuell we are allowd on to race. And yes, I mad a LOT of race track maps for different people around the world. And yes I know how that works. I only wanted to know WHO MADE THE FUEL MAP IN THE RACE ECM, AND HOW MANY DAYS DID HE SPEND ON IT THAT"S IT. I am only concerned about the people who have NO knowledge about this, You don;t need to buy the RACE ECM the stock exhaust and the stock ECM can make easy 140 HP on the rear wheel on pump gas. | ||
| Jules |
Strongbad - are you speaking from a position of authority there - i.e. do you KNOW what's in the map or are you making an educated guess? What you say could potentially put people off buying the "Race" ECU for street use (i.e. buying it purely to fix a lean running issue with a race pipe) so I would rather be certain that you're right (i.e. you KNOW the map is likely to be unsuitable for road use) than listen to lots of conjecture. Easy - I suspect that tuning the std ECU would probably be better for street-based riders, but you have to admit that $250 for a complete ECU is going to make people think twice about spending more on a "simple remap". I don't mean to imply that what your selling dosn't represent a huge investment in time and effort and that it doesn't yield great rewards (which clearly it does) but as a layman, given the choice between sending my ECU off to be mapped (and being off the road for a couple of weeks) and just putting in a plug & play complete ECU I know which one I'd lean towards. I'm going to wait a bit to see how "driveable" the bike is on the street with the race ECU and whether it compensated for the lean running and then make a decision based on that.. | ||
| Crswede |
Slaughter Examine my HP 8730W Workstation, can't find any serial port. But maybe in USA that model is still classified as "Best Buy" | ||
| Strongbad |
Easy, The original DSB map to run sunoco 260GTX altogether probably has about 8 hours on the dyno and a full season on the racetrack. The pump gas map has maybe 2 hours on the dyno, but good drivability on the racetrack has been confirmed by a number of club level racers. Jules, The plug and play race ecm ($250 one) is only designed to be used with the Buell race exhaust. No testing has been done with this cal and any other full exhaust or slip-on, so proper operation with anything other than the Buell exhaust cannot be guaranteed. With the Buell exhaust however, it should be fine on the street but fuel economy won't be the greatest and very little work was done for cold weather operation, so proper cold starting and operation can't be guaranteed either. I can't say that I am speaking completely from a position of authority because I am not affiliated with EBR. However, I produced all of the 1125R/RR race maps for the factory during the 2008 and 2009 seasons. I am assuming that these are what will be included in the race ecm. I guess for definitive information you would have to contact EBR. | ||
| Easyrider |
Finally Strongbad, So you made the old map for the time people where racing in the USA. 8 hours on the dyno, is not much for something you can use on the street. I am happy that you say you don't know what Mapping is in the current Race ECM EBR is selling. I am also very happy you mention clear that a lot of stuff still has to be adjusted for street use. Also I am happy that you see, that this mapping will not work propper on a street bike, with normal headers and normal slip-on. Thank you, now people now what they buy. That's all (-: | ||
| Strongbad |
Easy, Glad we are on the same page here. I never intended to imply that it would be good to just put it on a stock bike or even one with a slip-on. It is clearly stated on the EBR website that the ECM is intended for the Buell exhaust and track use. | ||
| Justa4banger |
When i think "RACE ECM" i think of a blank ecm with a basic map that absolutely needs to be tuned.... if anyone out there thinks the full race ecm with the user tuning option is just a plug and ride ecm... i imagine they are mistaken.. When i think of the 250.00 ecm i think of an ecm that comes with a blanket tune that is just better than stock... I can't see anyone on here really needing a race ecm.. only the hard core guys, guys with more money than sense, and guys that like to tinker..... I'm still thinking of going with the Old Sweaty Balls tune... as long as you can make adjustments... that all i need. | ||
| Blackflash |
I believe 4bangers correct.I think there will be people with dissapointment.If not thats a great value. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Well I don't mind being a Guinea pig for the PnP $250 Race ECM. I am as curious as anyone. And if it makes the bike run like crap I'll just put the stock ECM back in and call it a lesson learned. My hope is that it will make the bike more fun to ride. My 1125r is a toy...I don't deliver pizza with it...I don't commute on it...I just want to play. So if all it takes is popping in a $250 part to play harder I'm game  | ||
| Jules |
Thanks for the clarification - this has been a very useful thread for me | ||
| T_man |
Me too. I hope someone dynos the plug and play version and displays the Air-to-fuel ratios. |
