| Author |
Message |
    
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 05:54 am: | 
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Alex, Thanks for the input. It certainly makes sense. That same thing said me the tuner:
"The volumetric efficiency depends largely on the geometry of the intake pipe (length, diameter, curvature, etc.). It Varies throughout RPM range with an exhaust with less back pressure and an improved intake system efficiency..."
The Tuner told me that perhaps a Forcewinder by length, diameter and curvature (more length and curvature than Ham Can) it would help to the torque drop at 2500 rpm so I'm thinking to swap it by a Forcewinder. What do you think about?......
Which of them make better performance?...... (Oval Ham Can or Forcewinder air cleaner).......
What do you mean by this statement?.....
"You can not tune these away with fuel or spark maps. They are a result of insufficient cylinder fill."
How I could fix or improve it?....
Up to now adding fuel at WOT= more stumbling but I have noticed a slight improvement subtracting fuel in WOT (at 2500 rpm) and that help a bit.
Easyrider,
I checked again for an intake leak. With the engine warmed up despite spraying them with carb cleaner and WD-40 multiple times from every angle I couldn't hear any significant change in idle. I also checked all fuel lines and all is ok. If there is an intake leak, I'm unable to find it.
Your help it is much appreciated.
Regards. |
Easyrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 06:39 am: |
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Oké, we now know it is not ā leak, now try to add only in that areā where the stumbling is the amount of 10 clicks to the injector timing and take here for ā spin, sorry for mistype, i Am in italy for work and use my mobile phone |
Alex
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 06:48 am: |
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I cantītell You what air cleaner performs better with Your bike. At least not while sitting in front of my computer. I would have to put Your bike on my dyno, change air filters and adjust mapping to see what it does. But as most often with harmonic frequencies You might be able to get rid of the 2500 dip (with air cleaner and/or exhaust changes) just to find a dip elsewhere in the graph.
What do you mean by this statement?.....
"You can not tune these away with fuel or spark maps. They are a result of insufficient cylinder fill."
I mean exactly what Iīm saying. If a torque dip is caused by a bad exhaust or wrong cam timing or resonance in the intake/exhaust tract You can adjust Your mapping as much as You want, You wonīt get rid of the torque dip (as it is not caused by bad mapping). If thatīs the case other things are necessary (like a different exhaust system or different cams or other things). |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 07:12 am: |
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Easyrider,
What do you mean with? "try to add only in that areā where the stumbling is the amount of 10 clicks to the injector timing" .......fuel or Ignition Timing?....
Once again thanks for the info.
Alex,
Thanks for listening and suggesting.
Really appreciate your help. |
Easyrider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 01:05 am: |
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Buellisticx1,
fuel |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 05:19 am: |
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I did what you said and it didn't help. Adding more fuel the stumbling is more pronounced, especially when engine is warmed up.
Is there another possibility?....what else can i do on there?...... |
Alex
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 06:53 am: |
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Up to now adding fuel at WOT= more stumbling but I have noticed a slight improvement subtracting fuel in WOT (at 2500 rpm) and that help a bit.
now try to add only in that areā where the stumbling is the amount of 10 clicks to the injector timing
I did what you said and it didn't help. Adding more fuel the stumbling is more pronounced, especially when engine is warmed up.
Seems pretty logic.
You may want to try to subtract some fuel. On the other hand if Your dyno guy did everything right playing with fuel wonīt help anyway. Then it is in Your set up.
But it is hard to tell if Your mapping is right without having the bike on hand. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:50 am: |
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Alex,thanks for listening and suggesting.
What it seems really odd is that with a 1250 Kit and porting heads and my set up the fuel in 2500 is pretty lower than a Race stock fuel map(-20)....
As far as I know the dyno guy did set the air/fuel in 13:5 on that area(front and rear) but they said me had never done A TUNING TO BUELL BY HERE BUT THEY YES HAN DONE MANY MANY JAPANESE BIKES AND DUCATIS.(Really I did not trust on them.)
I have tried to fix it by subtracting fuel in that map area and I noticed a slight improvement subtracting fuel. Perhaps it is the way to go, but I know that adding or subtracting fuel blindly is a sure way to screw things up. In many cases, it will have the opposite effect.
As for my set up is pretty common (C.F. Hurricane air cleaner and D&D exhaust)...
I will try subtracting a bit of fuel in that area and let's see how it goes.....
I'll provide findings.
Regards.
(Message edited by buellisticx1 on January 14, 2010) |
Easyrider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:52 am: |
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What you did was THE next thing i would suggest, take fuel out. Did the dyno guy uses 2 o2 sensors to dyno your bike, so is there ā hole in your Front header for ā 02 sensor |
Easyrider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:15 am: |
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Is there ā hole in the Front header |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 01:17 pm: |
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They first made the 1 hole in the front side of stock header and they welded a O2 bung to measure the AF separately front and rear.
Later I Bought a Race D&D header and I installed it to the bike, so I'm not running with the same headers. The bike was tuned with a 2,5" X1 stock header (USA) but I do not think that is very different, because from the beginning there was the stumbling on there.
Regards. |
Easyrider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 05:18 pm: |
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I think you need to find another tuner who is able to get THE stumbling out and check the complete bike, just to be sure |
Kalali
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 06:09 pm: |
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This may be unrelated but based on my limited experience on watching race car tuning, the "dip" issue is related to the length of the intake and/or headers. In race cars, the shorter the intake tract, the more low end torque. That is exactly why most of the newer sports cars have a switch/flap in the intake manifold which modulates the length of the intake mainly as a function of the engine speed. The flap opens after a certain RPM. The objective is to keep a short intake at low RPM and long intake at high RPM. The result is a more linear torque curve and better low end torque. If it were my bike I would leave the fuel/timing maps alone and experiment with different length intake. In your case, a FW has a longer intake than your ham-can so switching to FW will probably give you a better top end. If you notice the stock snorkel is quite long in order to provide an impressive low end torque. The only way to be sure is make the changes while the bike is on a dyno. Hope this helped. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 07:09 pm: |
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Kalali, I'd guess you're right. It certainly makes sense. I think the main problem is related to the volumetric efficiency, I'm pretty sure it's that.
Anyway I will NOT giving UP.
I will have to go and start looking at all the possibilities.
I'll post when I get it figured out.
Thanks to all who responded and added their suggestions for what might be my issue. |
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