| Author | Message | ||
     Slowdive |
Longtime lurker, first time poster here; with a wonderful, brand new, Buell SS Lighting Long 2010 story for the holidays. This story always leaves me with a warm fuzzy feeling inside when I think about it. It all started not-so-long-ago with a 2 hour drive to the “closest” Buell dealer I could find after some quick Internet research. It was primarily a Harley dealership of course, but the place was HUGE and they had at least 15 various Buells on display, plus many more in storage. Very impressive place. A gentleman who identified himself as the owners son proceeded to spend the next 2 hours convincing me he was my friend, because, well , that is a salesman's job, I guess... That and getting high judging from his bleary eyes and the reek of weed coming off him. Anyway, “friendship” was about all he had to offer, because he sure as hell didn't know anything about the Buell's. I learned more from 2 hours on the Internet then I did from 2 hours with him. Back home I went, feeling kind of cheap and used.... I figured I'd do all the Buell learn'n on my own and in the meantime keep saving my pennies till spring when I'd be able to afford one. Cut to 1 week later and a checkout clerk at a sporting goods store in casual conversation tells me that Buell's closing shop forever.(Bad news comes from the strangest places, eh ?) So I make some calls and sure enough, no waiting till spring, get one now or forget it. A few days later, armed with a folder of info, my heart set on a XB12Ss and a little wiser (?), I make another 2 hour trip into the belly of the beast. The pothead wasn't there so I speak to another salesman who knows equally as much about Buells – ie, whatever is printed on the little card hanging off the handlebars.... I probably spent over 6 hours there that day, between no one having answers to any of my questions, being promised a test drive and then waiting half an hour for a bike to test, being shuffled off to the side for more important Harley buying customers, and wading through the typical sales pitches, lies and deceit.... By the end of the day I felt like an Iraqi vet with 3 tours under my belt. I put down 3 fourths of the money, which doesn't impress them at all because it makes financial shenanigans harder, and embarrassingly enough have to finance the rest. My credit check is automatically rejected of course because I've never financed anything in my life(real men pay cash) and had no plans on ever doing so till Buell went under(emergency situation). Mom to the rescue. I call my mother and she agrees to co-sign, but has to come in personally to do so. Meanwhile, I wade through the bull, finalize the deal, and am given TWO printouts of the agreement. One week later, my mother has made the 2 hour drive to do her part, and now I've made my 3rd drive there to finish everything(think about $100.00 worth of gas at this point). I'm 2 seconds away from signing the paperwork my mother has ALREADY SIGNED, when I notice on the finance managers computer screen - --- $ 560.61 --- service contract “What's that ?” I ask .... “What's what ?” He says … “That !” I say, pointing to the mysterious money figure on the screen, but not on my paperwork. “Oh thats a service contract”, he says somewhat casually. “Where'd that come from ?” I say. “Oh, didn't you want that ?” he says, like a child who got his father something tasteless for fathers day. I ask him why in God's name would you think I wanted a service contract when not only did I specifically tell you I didn't want one, but I went so far as to tell you the story of how the last bike I bought(Yamaha) I got scammed with a shady service contract and the guy who did it almost got beat down right there in his office, only saving himself by picking up the phone and threating to call the cops right then and there..... “Oh, I'm so sorry,” he says, “I must have forgot to take it off the last time we went over this. My memory is so bad these days you know. Oh, I don't know what we're going to do now, your mother's already signed the paperwork. If I take this to my boss, you know, this is going to be a big problem.........you already got insurance on the bike too, right ......” Then he sits there, staring at me. I resist the urge to do what somebody probably needed to do to this little turd along time ago and tell him he's welcome to leave the magical service contract on there, I'm just not paying for it, and to also remove the estimated tax charge on the bike, which was his idea to finance, “so I would be able to pay the tax on the bike when I got back to my state”, but which really just drove up the finance charges for me and the rewards for them ..... Then I stare at him. “Uh, this might take a minute”, and he shuffles off to the sales manager's office. It took 20 minutes; which allowed me to look at the TWO finalized printouts of the sales recites I was given showing NO service contract. This turd tried to scam me using my 64 year old mother. He shuffles back, somewhat cranky now, and we finish the paperwork. I leave that night with the bike, relieved that this nightmare is finally over. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha < picture Bela Lugosi laughing evilly. One week later I get a call from my mother, “Jim from Western Reserve needs you to call him”. I call to see what the problem is and am told in a friendly voice that even though we qualified for a certain interest rate in a certain time frame AND he checked it THREE times just to make sure, now it's suddenly no good and my mother and I must sign all new paperwork and go through everything again. With naive disbelief I ask will everything stay the same money wise, AND HE SAYS YES. Four days later I receive the paperwork in the mail and the rate is the same but the time frame to pay has been changed to gouge me for more interest.... ha Ok now, deep breaths, don't do anything stupid, this is just a test, right ? I wait a week, compose myself, and write a nice letter to Jim and Western Reserve Harley explaining my thoughts on the matter(ranging from me contacting the State Police to a more “personal” solution) and give the little turds 24 hours to contact me with an explanation. THREE WEEKS LATER my mother starts receiving harassing calls from Eaglemark Savings Bank demanding the first payment on a bike I'm not sure I have a final price on let alone can even get registered and licensed. Hahahaha, what a hoot, those silly guys. So, I'd like to wish a very Merry Christmas to Jim Richards and everyone at Western Reserve Harley Davidson !!!! | ||
| Black51 |
Wow...that is an insane story! I seriously would have told them to shove the bike up their a** when they tried to pull the stunt with the service contract. Tell Eaglemark the deal. Then tell them you'll contact the consumer protection arm of Pa's Attorney General. They won't mess around. And offer Western Reserve their bike back. They can come pick it up of course since they've already wasted a great deal of your time. By the way, I had a somewhat similar situation insofar as waiting around to test ride a Buell when other "more important" Harley buyers were there. I didn't take offense. I waited and then gladly took their bike for a test ride for a nice flogging, at that point NEVER intending to buy it from them. When I came back and they asked me about it I told them it was the best ride I'd ever had (and it was, by far...those Uly's are SOOO smooth!). When he wanted to write up the sales paper work I told him I was buying elsewhere. Then he had the unmitigated gall to tell me they'd be happy to do the paper work for me and offered me an extended service contract for $1,200. Yeah right. Sorry your deal has gone south. I would have stopped pursuing them when the owner's son smelled of weed and didn't know the product. But, Merry Christmas to you too!  | ||
| Iamarchangel |
So, if you don't sign the new papers, does that mean the deal is off and you have no more concerns? The store screwed up, gee, you'll have to return the bike. No charge. Because Buell Tools shows that there are still 3 blue ones left in Penn. Merry Christmas. | ||
| Buewulf |
This is the spot delivery scam, and it sounds like you got double-whammied with a straw purchase scam too. 1) The stealership lied to you. He knew exactly what interest rate you (and your mom) qualified for unless you lied about your income. Period, end of sentence. 2) You were smart enough not to sign the new contract, weren't you? If you did, you agreed to the new financing arrangement regardless of whether or not you knew what the "final" price was. You apparently signed it if the bank is asking for their money. 3) If the bank is already asking for their first payment, then a considerable amount of time has passed since you bought the bike, no?. You own it despite any contest you may have with the dealer. I suggest you pay the bank ASAP or lose the bike. Sounds like you may have already ruined your mother's credit. 4) You broke the number one rule of financing a vehicle by not pre-arranging financing with a bank or credit union. I'm betting that you and your mother also broke the number one rule of co-signing and did not sign the same documents together at the same time. It sounds like the stealer may have put her as the primary borrower. She got taken to the cleaners on your behalf. There are actions you can take (or could have taken) to fix this, but it sounds like the windows of opportunity have already expired. I don't know enough details of your story to really suggest any course of action. I'd at least contact consumer protection and give them the straight skinny. Best thing to do in the meantime is just pay it off ASAP (you verified that there was no prepay penalty on your loan, right?) and learn from the mistake. Sorry this happened to you and your mom. Many people do an astounding amount of research on the vehicle/home/etc. they are buying only to get roasted during the acquisition process that they bothered to learn nothing about. There are just too many soulless bastards out there who can't wait to rob you blind. Buyer beware. | ||
| Bumblebee |
I found this online. It might be helpful. http://www.carbuyingtips.com/scams.htm | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Well that sucks... I had a pretty good experience when I went to Western Reserve. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
sounds like as soon as he opened up his mouth about financing mark they knew they could get over on him. if you hear the bs enough, you know how to handle it. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
See, and no offense, that's part of what wrong with the "real men pay cash" dogma. Rich men don't. Money is a tool, same as a hammer. It can make you more money or hit you in the thumb. I instruct youngsters, who ask, to borrow a thousand from a bank/credit union and pay it back over a year. You learn a bit how the system works and you get a good credit rating. If you screw up, it doesn't hurt so much. I bought my bike using one of the offers that come in the mail. Read them carefully. Anyway, I played three of them in a row so I never actually made a payment on the bike for about 9 months. Then I was able to arrange a big loan that took all my debts. The interest difference doing it that way is paying for the bike and the insurance. All of which probably isn't going to help you now, hope it can help in the future. All the best. | ||
| Blake |
Oh the drama! "Real men pay cash." except when they want a new motorcycle; then real men get mommy to co-sign a loan? Real men revel in drama? | ||
| Buewulf |
Bumblebee said, "I found this online. It might be helpful." That is a pretty informative site Bumblebee. Good find. Others should check that out even if they are familiar with the system. Wolfridgerider said, "Well that sucks... I had a pretty good experience when I went to Western Reserve." You got farked, too. You just don't realize it!  I think they probably just saw this guy was green and decided to bend him over for one. Plus you could have dealt with different people than he did who had more integrity. Iamarchangel says,"See, and no offense, that's part of what wrong with the "real men pay cash" dogma. Rich men don't. " I'd have to agree. Credit scores are so important these days for everything to buying insurance for your bike to getting a job. It may not be right, but that's the way it is. Truth is, I pay cash for a lot of things: cars, motorcycles, toys, etc. unless there is a zero interest option available. Like archangel says, debt is a tool that allows you make more money by using someone else's. It can also be an albatross around your neck when used unwisely or if shiite happens. Cash payers can find themselves in a real predicament as well if you wipe your reserves out to buy a motorcycle then shiite happens and you have no cash OR credit to get through a rough patch of life. (Message edited by Buewulf on December 17, 2009) | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
You got farked, too. You just don't realize it! I don't think so... I got to deal with just about everyone at the dealership. From the owner down...... I have only been to a couple of Buell dealers that had the same amount of Buell swag in stock. I just have a hard time with someone dogging a board sponsor that only has 1 post count. Compare that to a dealer that gives away track days... has a owner that gives a class on how to set up your suspension... Brings in Wes Orloff to speak to us.... and the list goes on.... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/37/ 450376.html A little digging goes a long way. | ||
| Teach |
Western-Reserve HD/Buell is a sponsor of Badweather Bikers and has organized some really cool Buell events at our dealership. In the past we have earned the Pegasus award from Buell as being one of the top Buell dealers in the nation. If you search Badweb you will see many posts from myself. I am not new to this forum. Does it make sense that I/we would do all of the above and try to take advantage of customers and risk this kind of response? Do you really think we make a huge some of money on bike deals. For illustration, let me give you a typical deal: On a loan that we give the customer our "buy rate" (we don't mark it up) I make $11.00. If I include a service contract at dealer cost, I make nothing. If I am not the salesman, I make nothing. For myself, it just isn't worth the money to try to take advantage of a customer. I am a retired teacher receiving a pension (hence, my user name "teach") and have the position that I have because I love motorcycles, not that I need the money to put a roof over my head. I am sorry the person that started this thread feels the way that he does. Could I have done a better job, yes, was I trying to deceive him or cheat him, no. Sincerely, everyone have a Happy Holiday. Jim Richards Business Manager Western-Reserve HD/Buell |
