| Author | Message | ||
     Andymnelson |
I dunno...a letter riddled with 1/2 facts (at best) and empty threats...doesn't seem that will go far. | ||
| Rfischer |
Folks, don't mix up the Buell issue[s] with MV. The purchase of the Italian line was an assumption of debt only. No money changed hands. It did not syphon off capital or liquidity from other H-D operations. MV had to stand or fall on its own financial legs and it apparently fell. No surprise there - this will be the umpteenth time it's gone broke or been closed. Buell is a different matter, but again, it has to be financially viable to stay in the H-D family. It seems it is not. Don't hang that on H-D. They are very good businessmen. What has felled Buell [or seemingly felled it] is the economic tsunami of the past 2 years. I'm betting Buell was unable to roll over its debt and H-D also took a big hit on the Harley Credit side [got treated like a toxic financial when it went to raise capital] so was unable to help. Conjecture to be sure, but more likely the culprit[s] than perceived organizational marketing shortcomings. We'll see.... | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm selling my HD stock today, and putting it back in the money market. The market should love this pennywise / pound foolish strategy. I'm happy to take their money. Drop us a note and tell us who when we can *finally* invest in a motorcycle company with Elves at the tiller.  | ||
| Bomber |
Court -- please be sure to let us know if there is anything we can do for the folks that will be most directly impacted by this sad news . . . . . . . Good thoughts on the way to East Troy and to American Sport Bike, as well! | ||
| Ratbuell |
Court - as I said earlier, please give my best to everyone. I wish I could shake hands and make eye contact when I say "thank you"...maybe someday soon. Personally, I can't wait to see what comes next. Erik and I are a lot alike, I suspect. I know I'm too dumb to give up - and last year when I 'got' to learn to walk again, I proved that to myself. I think Erik has a lot of that same stubbornness in him (but he has a WHOLE lot more talent than I do!). Endless possibilities. If I can help (I'm just a grunt, but I can move heavy stuff LOL), please let me know Joe | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Andy, you surely don't know Greg very well with those statements.... Well done Greg! | ||
| Andymnelson |
"Andy, you surely don't know Greg very well with those statements.... " Nope I don't know him at all, but I do know that: "news of discontinuing MV Agusta and Buell" is not accurate, MV is not being discontinued, rather sold. "will harley as a whole, ride the chrome wave and settle on the mundane hoping for sales to improve?" is attempting to insult the hugely successful part of HD, make your own judgment as to how far that will go. same with this comment: "a chrome wonder" "Why didn't Harley's management invest the MV Agusta funds in Buell" How much funds did they invest? "I now must evaluate your performance as a leader for Harley Davidson Co" Their leadership of HD is exactly what they are claiming this is all about! Moving ahead strongly with their vision of "chrome wonders"...which has brought many large dollar signs to the company over the years. | ||
| Trackdad |
Andy.... please write your own letter to Harley...these are my comments and I didn't ask for your critique. I posted my feelings and sentiments for Buell. Greg | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Greg, as one of your new "Minnesota friends", I think your letter stands well as it is. I think he/they will get the picture. The HD brand is very rapidly losing it's luster. I have MANY diehard HD riding friends, they too are getting a bit weary of the whole "Lifestyle" thing. It has become a standing joke among THEM regarding new product time. They joke about the latest fringed junk in the apparal catalog. Even the some of the diehards think most of the stuff is a joke! Especially when it comes in a package that says "Made in China". Not much innovation on the hardware front either. Maybe new paint and subtle refinement at best. Oh yeah, new chrome too! Brad | ||
| Crowley |
I was gutted watching a visibly upset Erik talking on the video, my best wishes go out to him and his workforce. However, I think back to the phoenix that is the Triumph Motorcycle Company, look how they have risen from the ashes to become a world leading brand. I really, really hope this will happen to the Buell company. It'll be hard to keep a good man like Erik down. | ||
| Randomchaos |
The tough part I see for Buell now, is they only have 2 model bikes that don't rely on Harley for the largest part of the bike, the motor. And court, what was up with your recent projection? I just read HD had an 84% loss in the last quarter... | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm torn between dumping my HOG stock, or hanging on to it and voting AGAINST the board at every opportunity. What to do, what to do?? | ||
| Bjbauer |
This is the problem with publicly traded companies. In the end they are looking at shareholder value. I sold a small company to a publicly traded group a few years back. They think different and they have to. The CEO will get calls from big investors/Mutual funds etc. and they will put the pressure on. One of many reasons not to be publicly traded in my opinion not to mention the red tape of Sarbanes Oxley. (there are good reasons to be as well) I was always fearful of something like this. I always hoped they would sell the Buell division rather than resort to this. Does anyone know if they shopped Buell around for a buyer before pulling the trigger on this decision? I have never been interested in a Harley and won't even consider one now. If Buell isn't resurrected in some way there may be a BMW in my future. bb | ||
| Andymnelson |
I will, I just want the letters written to be factual and effective. Depending on how all of this pans out, I will be voting with my dollars and HD will know. I had planned to buy an 1125CR this summer, and always had it in the back of my mind that I will someday buy a Harley. If things are as they appear, neither will happen because of this move. But our words need to be professional (not saying that yours was not), factual and to the point- void of emotional reactions (not void of emotion, however). My hope is that by the time I write my letter, they will not have received so many name-calling type of letters that mine becomes quickly discarded. No, you did not ask for my critique directly, but you did post it on an internet forum  | ||
| S2tbolt |
Hey Court, 'Preciate U !!! Keep us posted, thanks! | ||
| Mikeyp |
This is some sad news. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I was gutted watching a visibly upset Erik talking on the video, my best wishes go out to him and his workforce. +1. Now that was an agonizing 2:37 of video. I also can't get the defeated, near-tears vision of EB of of my head. How devastating. A month earlier you are on th top of the world, celebrating a AMA Championship. You have finally MADE IT. Now your company is gone. I hope EB has the fight and drive to rise from the ashes. He's already my hero. If he comes back from the dead somehow, it will be way beyond amazing. | ||
| Betzy |
Appreciate the info Court, keep us posted... Thought go out to the 200 wonderful people at Buell. Nathan | ||
| Snub13 |
Wow, my heart goes out to the employees (as well as vendors / suppliers). They make an awesome product and walking through the factory you can see their dedication. Good luck to all. Is there anything I can do to help? Tim | ||
| Bjbauer |
I just watched it myself. What a roller coaster for the man. Didn't look like he has had much sleep. I wonder how much of a warning he had. This is really just tragic. | ||
| Buellsrule |
I see a once in a lifetime opportunity. Court, pm sent. Frank. | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
Being in my mid 20's I always saw Buell as a bike that future Harley riders start out with. Two of my friends have already bought Harleys after riding a Buell for a while. The way I see it Harley just insulted a huge amount of their future customers. From a business standpoint if Buell even came close to break even, the rest is just advertising for future Harley customers. I will keep my 1125R and no longer consider a Harley for a second bike. Harley has just lost this future customer. As for the future I would love to see BRP pick up the brand, Buell would make a great addition to my local BRP dealer. I look forward to your updates Court. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I wonder how much of a warning he had. This is really just tragic. There certainly seem to be conflicting hints out there. Not quite a month ago, it was announced Erik was not renewing his contract with HD. Before that, we heard that HD had canceled a new Buell building on a day or two after it was announced. OTOH, Erik in the video, and the first post in this thread, made by Court last night, sure indicate they had no clue this was coming.  | ||
| Bjbauer |
I hope someone from the top at HD had the balls to go out and tell the employees the bad new themselves. Not make Erik do it. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I'm betting Erik is the type of man who WANTED to address his team versus letting some HD slime bag do it. I'm still optimistic that SOMETHING can be done to save Buell. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Eric would have had to have known at least several weeks ago. These decisions aren't made overnight and it would be difficult for me to believe that he wouldn't have been included in the discussions. Really a pity. | ||
| A10tankkill |
"Don't hang that on H-D. They are very good businessmen. What has felled Buell [or seemingly felled it] is the economic tsunami of the past 2 years. I'm betting Buell was unable to roll over its debt and H-D also took a big hit on the Harley Credit side [got treated like a toxic financial when it went to raise capital] so was unable to help. " Rfischer, wasn't it Harley management that made the decision to let the lending arm go hog wild with loans? The management screwed up big and everyone is paying. Don't spew what a great team they are. They, just like the banks jumping on the mortgage bubble allowed loans to people who should never have been allowed a loan for ~$15,000- $30,000 plus bikes! Now they have a mother load of defaults and repo bikes with little to no hope of recovering those dollars anywhere near fully. Give management credit when it's deserved, but kick their butts when it is called for also. They and the lending arm execs were short sighted fools. | ||
| Court |
I just tried to read a couple of the posts . . .in the middle of a very busy day. There is a lot of inaccurate conjecture. I'll not be home until late tonight but will set aside time to share a few things and answer a few questions. Court | ||
| Hughlysses |
Regarding the MV Agusta acquisition not being a big factor in Buell's demise, somebody at SacBORG gleaned this from the news release: Income Tax Rate The Company's third-quarter effective income tax rate was 61.8 percent compared to 38.2 percent in the same quarter last year. This increase was due primarily to the tax implications of MV Agusta, including the non-deductible write down of goodwill, and the impact of reduced Company earnings. Doesn't that say that HD's corporate income tax rate was nearly doubled as a result of buying MV Agusta? Brilliant. | ||
| Tootal |
As mentioned on ADV and in BB&D, Polaris would be a good fit. Victory could use some of Erik's genius and Buell would give them a new market. A good match IMO. Too bad I'm not in charge Thanks Court for your insight, looking forward to hearing your words. (Message edited by tootal on October 15, 2009) |
