| Author | Message | ||
     Qcbrob |
Funny, because I bought this bike so I could have ONE bike to leave stock and keep reliable and NOT have to mess with! Probably just the battery but since I'm new to Buell I thought I'd ask you guys before I replace it. The bike would crank but not fire when I brought it home yesterday. The bike spent all night on the trickle charger, and this AM read 13.3 volts, a full charge according to the owner's manual. Turned the key, lights on, fuel pump on, watched all of the little startup diagnostics flash and then hit the start button. Cranks and cranks but no fire. Repeated process one more time and check battery voltage - 12.2 - which is under a 50 percent charge according to the manual. Looks like the battery isn't up for the job anymore. I need to remove the left airscoop and the airbox cover to check both plugs and the dang bike hasn't even come off the back of the truck yet! Kinda funny start to a bike I bought so that I'd have ONE bike I didn't have to mess with. Any of you guys have any ideas about other shit I should check out before I go buy a new battery? | ||
| Qcbrob |
Dang it. Shoulda been in the knowledge vault. Sorry guys. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
If it is the original battery, that could easily be the problem. However, one wonders why the battery was not charged in the first place. Could easily be an older battery, not being used much is just past its due date. On the other hand, the battery charging system on the 2004 Buell does have a few potential problems. First and foremost among these, and one very often over looked, is the evil connector 77. This is the connector from the the voltage regulator to the battery that is located, (perhaps unhappily) under the front sprocket cover, just in front of the front pulley, with a few other wires. This connector appears to be undersized, and can fail, causing the battery not to charge, and also causing problems for the voltage regulator and stator. The regulator is rather delicate. So......... The first thing to do is buy a shop manual and parts manual. While you are waiting for them to arrive, jump start the bike with another battery, and check to see if there is a charging voltage on the battery: 14.7 volts, if I recall correctly. If there is not, check connector 77. If there is a problem there, replace connector, I think there may be an upgrade, not sure. If that does not work, do the diagnostics in the manual for the VR and the stator. It is not unusual for failure in one to take the others with it. Note: Anecdotal evidence suggests that using Mobil One gear oil in the primary can accelerate failure of the stator. Many Bad webbers have switched to Harley Formula + which is designed for this application. Good luck. This problem can be vexing and mysterious at first, but there is a lot of good stuff here on how to solve it. Just my .02¢ | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Actually, re - reading your question, I think I may jumped the gun on the charging system. The reason I say that, is if the bike is working properly it normally will start on just a few cranks. If it cranks and cranks and cranks as you say, that may indicate a different problem, and the low battery may be a result of the continued cranking. Checking the plugs is a good place to start. Here is a good series of posts on changing sparkplugs on a Buell. The rear is a bit of a job. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/498317.html?1253810127 Do you hear the fuel pump whine when you turn the bike on? If not, that could be a problem. An of course, you want to check all the fuses, and the connections to the battery. Let us know how you get it fixed. | ||
| Scbuellkat |
Not to sound ridiculous but make sure it has gas. It wont fire without it. Probably does, but I dont know the history of the bike and if it may have not run in a while and for some reason gas evaporated, but it shouldn't do that in a sealed tank. | ||
| Qcbrob |
It DOES have gas - I can hear it sloshing around in there and the fuel light does not come on. Also - i can hear the fuel pump start when I turn the kill switch onto the "on" position right before I hit the starter. I bought the bike from Odie - super-nice guy and as straight up as they come. He told me he kept the battery charged on a tender and fired it up every so often. I picked the bike up from him yesterday AM at Buelltoberfest, and it was COLD that morning. The bike cranked and coughed, but no luck. Figured it was the cold and a low charge. Once I got it home I charged the battery and got one almost start and one backfire, now nothing but cranking. Fuses look good. The bike is a super-low mileage, ultra clean Lightning, and I'm pretty sure, considering it's mileage, it has the original battery. I'll bet that's the issue right there. Unfortunately, it's Sunday so no dealers or bike shops are open. Maybe one of the local auto parts stores will have a suitable replacement battery. I'll research that. Thanks for pointing me to the post on the plugs. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
watched all of the little startup diagnostics flash Just making sure: engine light comes on with the oil light and the neutral light. Pump primes and needles sweep then engine light goes off. Oil and Neutral stay on until engine is started then oil goes off. There is no flashing unless the engine light is indicating a problem. So, what are you seeing? | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Have a battery shop do a load test on the battery. You could probably get that done on a Sunday. Of course, you'd have to take them the battery. | ||
| Qcbrob |
Iamarchangel - "engine light comes on with the oil light and the neutral light. Pump primes and needles sweep then engine light goes off. Oil and Neutral stay on until engine is started then oil goes off." That's what it's doing. Engine light does NOT stay on. Speaking of the engine light - I LOVE how it actually has a little pic of a MOTORCYCLE engine. The last HD I had had a pic of a car engine. I'm gonna LOVE this bike. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Change the spark plugs and re charge the battery. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Autozone has a battery that works although the connectors need a little fiddling with: I think I had to put some little washers on them or something. The Harley battery is a good battery and a good value, but many parts depts are closed Sundays, and Mondays too around here: hence my Autozone Battery. Once you change the plugs, you might not be in a big hurry to do it again, so use the best quality plugs you can get. I use Denso Iridiums IUX24's and they last a long time and don't foul easily. It is pretty easy to foul the Buell plugs by starting the motor, reving it a few times, and then turning it off right away before it gets warmed up. Knowing Odie, I would be surprised if there were anything the matter with the motorcycle except an old battery and fouled plugs. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Also note that you need a battery with 200 cca. | ||
| Sparky |
Does the gas smell fresh or like turpentine? If it smells bad, drain all the gas and fill with new. Stale gas deteriorates into a sticky residue that can not only clog fuel injectors, pump and filter but can cause intake valves to stick. | ||
| Skully |
Rob, Can you get your hands on ECMSpy or VDSTS and perform a complete diagnostics routine on the bike? Keith? | ||
| Xb1200rick |
nuthin.  (Message edited by xb1200rick on October 05, 2009) | ||
| Qcbrob |
New 93 octane in the tank and a new battery with 13-plus volts - still no fire. Tomorrow I'll check and change the plugs and see if that works. | ||
| Moosestang |
Are you trying to start it in neutral? Try with the clutch in as well if trying in neutral. | ||
| Nickh |
Have you tried looking at the switch built into the kickstand? If it's faulty, it could prevent you from starting the bike. -Nick- | ||
| Goinsideways136 |
is your kickstand down in the truck? | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Did the new battery sound stronger? What did the starter do? Lot of whirring, nothing caught? Plugs. Lot of whirring, couple of pops? Plugs first, some other issues but Odie's rep suggests not. Lot of clicking, no whirring? Maybe starter but more likely wiring issue. Not much clicking? Bad solenoid, not likely. More likely bad battery connection or bad wiring at relay (check green wire's insulation). Plugs are next on your list. Relays can be shuffled (that's free at least, a new relay is less than $10 but shuffle them first). Got an old plug around? Pull the cap and put that in, PAY ATTENTION HERE, let it sit on the case and don't touch it. There's quite a kick so stay back. Hit the starter and watch. No spark, it might be coils. Spark, it's the plugs. Also wait a bit and see if anybody advices against that. (Message edited by iamarchangel on October 04, 2009) | ||
| Odie |
Come on guys. Rob, the bike would start JUST FINE every week or so. I would also trickle charge the battery every few weeks since I wasn't riding it AT ALL. Ask anyone who has been to March Badness how the cold mornings and the humidity effects start ups. My bike didn't want to start that morning after you left. The battery is most likely the original. You said you bought a new one. Put it in and go riding. The bike has absolutely zero issues. Let me know how it goes. | ||
| Odie |
Addendum- there is nothing wrong with the starting system; charging system; fuel delivery system or any other system. Change the battery and put new plugs in it if they look like they need changed and go ride it. I have run the entire bike thru diagnostics on ECMSpy and it is fine. Please don't start taking it apart looking for issues that don't exist......It ran fine here the day before I trailered it up to Suches. | ||
| Odie |
...and there is no kickstand switch..... | ||
| Qcbrob |
Odie - now worries! i am completely confident that the bike is A-OK. I just posted the question up here since i am new to BOTH XBs AND fuel Injected bikes. I didn't want to accidentally mess something up and also wanted to make sure i wasn't overlooking some basic detail. I'm gonna drop some new plugs in there tonight to go with the new battery I installed yesterday and I'm sure it will spark right up. there is nothing to pick apart about this bike AT ALL, and my purchase from Odie was silky smooth and professsional. | ||
| Qcbrob |
My other bike is a 90-inch sportster that requires ALOT of throttle to fire. I'll bet that I gave the Buell a big squirt of gas (out of habit) when I cranked it after I got home. Looking through the archives, this is a no-no.  | ||
| Blake |
fouled plugs | ||
| No_rice |
+1 i would bet if you swapped plugs it would run. and usually when they foul a plug its the front one. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Got this motorcycle running yet? Just curious.  | ||
| Qcbrob |
New plugs and she roars to life! Thanks for a killer bike, Odie. Plug swap took a while, being my first time. Damn, that was kind of a chore! Good way to get to know the bike, though. I'm home alone with my two little boys while the wife is out of town, so I haven't gotten to ride it yet! | ||
| Greg_e |
Did plugs on my XB9R last night, not such a fun task without a wobble extension, that's on the list of things to buy tonight. Wish they had tied the fuel line up to the frame, would have made things easier. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Nice going Rob. I knew it was going to be the plugs! Sorta. Next thing to do is order the manuals. Don't forget the parts manual. It is very handy for ordering parts: no number no part in Harley land. But the best thing is the exploded views that are real helpful when you have a pile of parts on the bench and can't exactly remember how they all go back together. | ||
| Goinsideways136 |
glad to hear you got her started rob! cant wait to see some pics! | ||
| Odie |
It came with a new owners manual, parts manual, and shop manual. Glad to hear all is well. I think you figured out now how to start it. Don't touch the gas, period. At least not until it is running. Have fun Rob. Hope to see you next year in Suches!! |
