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Ourdee
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 06:53 pm: | 
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Court, Please, let me know the name and author of the book. I want to read it. Thanks, R.D. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 07:01 pm: |
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It's the classic . . . MOTORCYCLE DYNAMICS by Vittore Cossalter. |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 08:16 pm: |
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Sudden rush on Amazon in ...3 ...2....1.
Something else from old school. Modern tires are nothing like when I was a kid. I learned front brake technique in mx but I wouldn't have done it on the street. Now the tires I have, I can hit pretty well full braking leaned over to my max and still have control. (Like a few weeks ago, coming around a blind S at about 90 mph and LEO was there with lights flashing away. A bike had gone down but I was up and straight and turned around pretty quickly. Nice tires) |
Ourdee
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 09:12 pm: |
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Thanks |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 04:47 pm: |
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Just read the article Michael (Iamarchangel) posted. Pretty much backs up what I have to say about using the rear brake (and NOT Blake's opinion) so I'm done.
As I said, I don't feel a thing when your ass hits the ground. Ride however you like. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:49 am: |
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I thought about removingthe rear brake entirely. I already have an engine brake that's just as effective about 30 mph  . |
Roysbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 11:27 am: |
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Just because the full weight of the bike is on the front tire does not mean full brake force is being used to stop you in the shortest possible distance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KaSz2RynQE&feature =PlayList&p=C7F8E2D712649E65&playnext=1&playnext_f rom=PL&index=23 |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 03:35 pm: |
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Umm, that would be a stunt.
The up and down of the rear section shows the braking is being manipulated.
So, that would not really be part of the braking discussion. Sort of apples and oranges, you have to be really trying to actually stop. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 03:14 pm: |
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The way I look at it is from a perspective of minimizing my workload during an emergency stop. If I work just one brake instead of having to orchestrate the relative modulation of two brakes during an emergency stop, I think I'm better off, especially when one has the ability to instigate a rear wheel lock-up, loss of control and a high-side crash.
Blake, we are on the exact same page. My preferred method is 10% front brake for an instant to get the weight shifted and then hard on the front brake. I never touch the rear brake on the track or aggressive street riding. The only time I goof with the rear brake is slow speed maneuvering.
I also totally agree that modulating betweent the front and rear is a recipe for disaster. If I can concentrate on the front brake (which possesses 95% of my stopping power), I feel my attention is better spent elsewhere than searching for the last 5% of braking via the rear.
As Keith Code states, you only have a limited amount of attention and it's up to you where you want to spend it. |
Jake318
| | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 03:27 pm: |
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Guys but the rear brake levels the rear under extream braking. Its more of a stabilizing tool . You never see a WSB or gp rider not using the rear . |
Roysbuell
| | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 04:27 pm: |
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Jake, I agree as does my friend that is running in Valencia. He told me "who would have thought the rear brake was so important." |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 05:43 pm: |
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Guys but the rear brake levels the rear under extream braking. Its more of a stabilizing tool . You never see a WSB or gp rider not using the rear.
I agree that pro racers use the rear brake for rear tire control. HOwever, under extreme braking the rear is barely on the ground, so how exactly does it help? At times, pro racers ignore the rear brake--the most obvious is when they do the "Rossi stick out their leg" on a right hand corner.
For mortals, IMO the rear brake is more of a hindrance than help. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 09:17 pm: |
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"As I said, I don't feel a thing when your ass hits the ground. Ride however you like."
Thanks, I'll ride wisely, not risking a locked up rear wheel and the ensuing highside.
Likewise Jaime. We don't feel a thing when your ass gets launched and you end up landing on your head. However, the guy in the oncoming lane might object having to run over you.
"Guys but the rear brake levels the rear under extreme braking."
That is a myth. Under extreme braking, the rear brake on a sport bike does nothing except lock up the rear wheel. If the rear brake is significantly aiding the stoppage of the bike, then the braking is not extreme, rather it is mild or moderate. |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 11:17 pm: |
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Hate these kinds of conversations.
Beginner reads, "Oh, truck pulls out. Let's see, I hit the rear brake to do a weight transfer. Then I hit the front for max stopping power." Just like 1, 2, 3.
There is no "then", there may be "and".
There is only 1.
The science project has been done, just hit all the brakes. If the rear lifts, no probs, front will do it. If rear stays on the ground, good, it will help stop.
Beginners: if you're worried about losing traction, practice. Modern tires are great. Go to a deserted parking lot and do figure 8s. Use both brakes. Use the front. Use the rear. Learn how they work. You must not hit the truck. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 10:19 am: |
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When I see a possible threat (i.e. coming into an intersection where I have the legal right of way, but I don't have a clear line of sight to know that the physics right of way), I drag the rear brake lightly at the same time I cover the front brake and clutch.
That lights up the brake lights so the people behind me know there is a possible threat, and gets just a tad of weight transferred to the front (not much at all).
I got in the habit of doing that on the M2, where it really did make a difference. The brakes and suspension on the 9sx are so good that I suspect that the rear brake is just a fancy brake light switch. |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 10:59 am: |
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I do this with my front brake but no argument.
KEY POINT: before going out for our next ride, let's make sure our brake lights are working from either brake, and both brakes. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 06:57 pm: |
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quote:KEY POINT: before going out for our next ride, let's make sure our brake lights are working from either brake, and both brakes.
Excellent.
I get teased a lot but I got in the habit from years of test riding of checking each and every time I start the bike. It's about a 4 second procedure . . . but I'd no sooner leave on a bike with a non-func brake / turn signals as I would take off in an airplane with the comm gear out of service.
Your brakelights is your ONLY method of communicating to the drunk from Queens texting in the Escalade behind you.
I've increased my odds.
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