| Author |
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Carbonbigfoot
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 10:53 am: | 
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I wonder if there is a significant difference between individual units. Seems to be a spectrum of experiences that people have with the brakes (Front AND Rear) on Buells, and not just the 1125...
R |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 02:20 pm: |
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Also wonder how much has to do with pad compound. |
Avc8130
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 02:24 pm: |
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I understand people claim with a pad compound change feel can be increased and system performance can change, but the thing we have to remember with reviews is that they compare STOCK bikes as handed to them from the factory.
Stock for stock, I'm taking Ducati brakes.
Try them, it WILL make sense.
ac |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 02:33 pm: |
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Well, you really f-ed up in buying the Buell then....did they not have Ducati around when you bought the Buell? Gimme a break. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 02:59 pm: |
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I have never ridden a Ducati, but from everything I have heard the brakes are fantastic.
One thing that would be great is a less subjective stopping distance test between brakes. Claim Buell's brakes suck? What is the stopping distance once you hit the marker?
If the biggest complaint is "feel", Buell should seek stock pads that improve feel. |
Avc8130
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 03:21 pm: |
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Ha! Last time I checked, there was a lot more to a bike than just the front brakes.
Jeez, give ME a break. Drop the Koolaid for a second and realize that certain parts of other bikes MAY actually be better than those on the Buells.
If you were being sarcastic, I apologize...couldn't get it from the tone of the internet.
I do agree, that stopping distances would be cool and useful. Of course, they would have to be with the same level rider aboard. They should also have multi level riders test and report them separately. Bikes are MUCH different from cars. Cars are easy:
1. accelerate to 60
2. cross marker and SLAM brake pedal to floor
3. allow ABS to work
4. record result
Bikes actually still take skill to stop quickly.
The way a bikes brakes "feel" will greatly affect how well certain level riders are able to stop quickly.
ac
(Message edited by avc8130 on September 08, 2009) |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 03:32 pm: |
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Quite a bit of riding is "feel". Whether that be suspension feel, brake feel, seat comfort, handlebar position, engine vibration, etc.
I always take reviews with a grain of salt. What one person thinks is a great bike, I might not like.
For example, I had someone tell me they thought a BMW GS was more comfortable than a Ulysses. Having owned both, I can say that TO ME the Ulysses is more comfortable. But it's all a matter of opinion.
Horsepower, torque, 0-60 times, quarter mile, etc....are easy to quantify. But character and "fun factor" are things that make a bike interesting. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 03:46 pm: |
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I think a lot of these tests are done before the pads are fully bedded in. My front brakes feel a LOT better now than when I first picked up the bike. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 04:07 pm: |
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Acv,
I wasn't being sarcastic or knocking the Ducati brakes at all.
I have never heard anyone knock Ducati's brakes. Ever.
I also don't believe that stopping distances of the Buell are worse than Ducati's. I think the difference is feel and the comfort level that feel gives the rider.
Comfort means predictability. Predictability means confidence. If you are confident in the stopping ability fo your motorcycle, you are more likely to brake deeper into the corner. Conversely, if you lack confidence in your brakes, your lap times will suffer.
I do not believe the problem with "feel" is in the system. I believe the problem with feel is in the brake pads. I have seen the difference on my own bike with different pads.
I hope you didn't feel I was being flippant. I was agreeing with you on your assessment of Ducati.
I like Kool-aid, but am MOSTLY immune to it's effects.  |
Avc8130
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 04:31 pm: |
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Ft_bstrd,
Your post snuck in there. I didn't think you were being flippant at all. We clearly agree on this point.
I am still a little tentative with my Buell brakes just because they are so "light switch".
The ducati brakes, anyone could brake hard with.
I will certainly try different pads, but you won't see reviews with that because modifying one bike isn't fair to the rest.
Chad,
You stop with your logic and asking for quantitative testing! It has no place here! Buell one this test based on subjective "FUN" and we are loving every minute of it. Don't rain on our parade man! 
The previous was jest and mostly sarcastic, although I am enjoying the parade!
ac
(Message edited by avc8130 on September 08, 2009) |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 04:36 pm: |
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Ruprecht said...
"Also what's with the "rougher" curve?"
You can go here and and scroll to the dyno charts.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/41710/Motorcycle-Pho to-Gallery-Photo/2009-Buell-1125CR-Comparison.aspx
I noticed that too. It looks like it could be rear wheel slip on the dyno drum.
That could account for dyno numbers which are somewhat lower than I would have expected.
The good thing is that some Buells are finally getting the respect they deserve.
G |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 05:01 pm: |
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I suspect that the steep rake and short wheelbase of the Buell would give it a longer stopping distance than comparable bikes.
But it's damn fun! 
 |
Dentguy
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 05:26 pm: |
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These comparos are so subjective. The hard numbers don't lie, but some of the testers just like one bike over another sometimes.
By the way, somebody should go back and tell these guys to get a calculator and add their scorecard numbers again. One of the reasons I don't read much into these reviews. They can't even add. The only numbers that are correct are the Buell's. Looks like somebody is in it for Buell.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/8/4511/Motorcycle-Ar ticle/2009-Streetfighter-Comparo-III-Conclusion.as px
(Message edited by dentguy on September 08, 2009) |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 05:34 pm: |
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Feel is really subjective, but I'll add I know what people describe when they say the brakes on the Ducati's "inspire confidence".
Whether they are actually technically better or not isn't the point. It's that it gives the rider the confidence to use them in a way they wouldn't use a different braking system.
The big thing I've noticed on the Ducati's (and a couple of 'prillers) is the initial bite of the pads and how *HARD* the brake lever stops.
Do this with a duc and a buell with the motor off:
Grab the lever of an 1125r. It's spongy. Forget the fact that if you actually DID grab that much brake you would be on your head. That's not the point. The point is you grab a duc brake, the lever comes in 1/4 of an inch and then it *STOPS* and will not budge. hard as a brick. Even well bled, when cool, the Buell brake lever can be modulated like a firm piece of rubber.
People, correct or not, associate the lever coming in and coming to a *HARD* STOP with hardly any travel as "better".
Now, when then 1125r brake gets hot, it gets quite hard at the lever, a lot like the Duc, but you don't get that when you are first trying it out.
The second thing I notice is the bite. When I engage the Buell brake, it's very progressive. You can lightly drag it along all the way up to endo. The duc brakes *grab*. They feel like they are just coming on and yet have tons left to give. So does the Buell, as a matter of fact, but it doesn't *feel* so much that way. I think that's part of the confidence the euro-spec brakes inspire.
I *love* the Buell brake. I ride the hell out of them... But hop on a ZX-6 or a Duc, and you will see what I mean. Those brakes on those bikes are really incredible in the way they feel. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 05:58 pm: |
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Where does the extra "spongyness" come from?
From a hydraulic standpoint, where is the fluid going?
Is the lever flexing?
I've often wondered why the Buell levers don't "stop". |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 06:02 pm: |
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> I've often wondered why the Buell levers don't "stop".
You and me both. One would *think* the Buell system is actually more likely to be hard as a rock -- there's no "Y" fitting, there's no multiple calipers, etc. Geez, the system couldn't be any more simple really.
All I can imagine is the phenolic/plastic pistons are flexing inside the caliper.
But honestly, I don't know, or even have a good guess as to why. |
Avc8130
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 06:08 pm: |
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Watch closely where the caliper mounts to the fork.
You will see why many of the efforts over the past few years have focused on rigidly mounting the calipers to the forks.
ac |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 06:18 pm: |
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I bleed my brakes with a vacuum bleeder, and they are very firm. My 1125 is new, so I've not bled them yet, but they feel pretty dang good.
My CR is honestly the only bike I've ever owned that I didn't feel needed some performance upgrade/improvement. The article mentions the 1125 running lean, but I've not felt that other than at low speeds in a low gear where you can feel a tad bit of lean surge. Get in a higher gear, and it's not perceptual.
Only "performance" mod I've done is to de-noid it. The rest have been comfort mods to fit my sasquatch body.
I guess I should go test ride a new liter race replica to see what I'm missing, because I just don't see how it could be THAT much better. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 06:20 pm: |
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I bleed my brakes with a vacuum bleeder
Ahhh, the suckubus. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 06:43 pm: |
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Yeah...and it works WELL. That thing will bleed brakes so firm that the wind hitting the lever will slow you down. LOL! |
Nadz
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 08:22 pm: |
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Had some pulsating on my ol' XB so I got on a buddy's identical '12R and grabbed half a handful. Even cold, he said I was floating the rear tire three inches up, from fifty to zero. How's that for stopping power and modulation?
And that was only half a handful. Every one of these bikes can flip the rider off, it comes down to to skill and tires. |
Carbonbigfoot
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 09:04 pm: |
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Robs wife says buy an Aprila and you will not have any of these issues. HAHA Rob says no and is trying to take the key board back. Aprila Rocks!
Tammy the wife |
Carbonbigfoot
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 09:09 pm: |
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Sorry, guys. It's bad enough that you occasionally have to deal with my drunk posting... But she is a good woman. I think I'll keep her.
Got too much invested now to pull out.
And she does ride.
R |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 11:26 pm: |
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It's cool Rob, my "drunk interlock" wasn't working the other night either.
Z |
Ridenusa4l
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 03:02 am: |
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WOW one post about not pulling out and how she rides...rob im guessing you have kids?? hahahahaha
Jake |
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