| Author | Message | ||
     Badlionsfan |
This sucks, I dig the rolling starts. http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=37994 | ||
| Crusty |
I like them as well. Oh, well... | ||
| Backcountryme |
Oh man, the Formula 450 class will be a cool one. I am glad to see that they are going to have this class. This will be a great inexpensive class to go travel with. I want to build one now. | ||
| Backcountryme |
It would be really cool if there could be a way to slap a Blast in that class. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Cubes have too much wind resistance | ||
| Blake |
I'm not a big fan of the rolling starts, but if they are safer it was worth trying. I think the fans won out on that one. What is cool about the 450 class is that it will likely help evolve a new class of sportbikes for the street. Some days, a really light bike might be nice. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
so are these 450 bikes going to be dirt bike engines thrown into a road racing frame and body? | ||
| Blake |
AMA Pro Announces Plans for 2010 Road Racing Season | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Sorry, but throwing a 450 single out in the Moto-GT series with 1125's, 600, and the GT2 class? Disaster waiting to happen. there is a HUGE difference in straight line speed. I can already see the outcome of that idea. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
don't sport car races do this? They are professional racers I do not see a problem with it at all | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Well, I don't race in the AMA, but I do race CCS. I've raced with some of the riders now running Moto-GT. I've had more than my fair share of slower bikes and near misses. Couple that with not much room and time to make a passing move, throw in a half dozen 600's and 1125's coming up on a 450 single all trying to get around the slower bike and wait for the outcome. I don't see how you can compare car racing and bike racing. A car hits the wall and the drive gets out, most of the time. Ask Shawn Higbee about hitting a wall in Iowa and how he left the track. You're kinda hanging out in the open on a bike, not surrounded by a safety cage like a car. The closing speed between those bike will be astounding. AMA thought rolling starts and safety cars were a good idea too. I truly hope I'm wrong, but I don't see that mix of bikes going without and incident. | ||
| Blake |
Didn't they used to have three classes prior to integration of MotoST into AMA events? I don't think 450's were included though. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
yes. all were twin cylinders. | ||
| Backcountryme |
Formula 450 is a dirt bike frame, single cylinder bike with a 250 GP bodywork. They are slower down the straights, but get through the turns way faster then a big bike. I know when Danny was first starting out in road racing he raced a 125 against the big bikes. There was a class that pretty much raced anything. The big bikes would kill him on the fast sections, but Danny passed them in the turns. But I agree, if there is a big speed difference then the bikes should not race at the same time. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I believe this is an example  | ||
| Backcountryme |
And a nicely done example. I love the idea of these bikes. It might also bring about a really cool little street bike in the future | ||
| Trojan |
Check here for US 450 Moto http://www.450moto.com/ and here for the Euro version http://www.450gp.com/EN/index.html They are a great learner or budget class when run as a separate class, but could be dangerous running amongst superbikes simply because they will run different high corner speed lines and be much slower (almost 70mph slower!) on the straights than a full on 1000 IL4 Superbike. DMG talk about making racing safer yet seem to have no idea how to do it. This year's rolling starts and pace cars are a measure of that. Now they will return to clutch starts, but put the starter at ground level to increase visibility? Visibility to who? the front row maybe, or the second row but no further than that. The guys at the back will go when the row in front does because they won't see the starter at ground level that's for sure. Maybe they think there will only be enough teams to fill 3 rows in AMA Superbike next year  The rest of the racing world works fine with flags and pit boards, yet all of a sudden DMG thinks this is dangerous and wants to introduce rider-pit communication? Who is going to pay for this? Who is going to administer it? What hapens to the 'one man teams'?. Will race control be able to speak to all riders? What happens if one or more riders have communications failure? (it WILL happen). Flags/pace cars have been dangerous this year in AMA at Laguna because of poor organisation, not because the system is bad. Forget rider/pit radios and train your track staff better to get the correct flags displayed faster, and train riders to recognise flags and take correct immediate action. That way you have a professional racing class. How do yout hink WSB/MotoGP/BSB and every other top class organisation does it? What the sport doesn't need (either in the US or in Europe) is more committees and more stupidly pointless rules that achieve nothing except cost money, p*ss people off and drive enthusiasts away from racing. End of rant  Don't get me started in the UK race scene............. | ||
| Court |
>>>Forget rider/pit radios and train your track staff better to get the correct flags displayed faster, and train riders to recognise flags and take correct immediate action. Shit . . I hate it when I agree with you. The first lap disaster at NJMP yesterday made it clear that whatever system they use . . SUCKS. The track was littered with parts the size of a paperback book . . . the guys kicked off what they could but were still making runs for the track as the riders came around on the 2nd lap . . . . all I could think was this is going to make one of those "amazing video" shows . . . I have the entire thing on video but it was very dangerous. Interesting enough a lot of bikes made the successful weave between the parts . . . it was like the 7th bike that first hit one of the larger parts on the track. | ||
| Sycho |
Here's a 450 single with a Uly Front end  | ||
| Dentguy |
The rest of the racing world works fine with flags and pit boards, yet all of a sudden DMG thinks this is dangerous and wants to introduce rider-pit communication? Maybe they really want communication so they can broadcast it on TV to be like Nascar. Saying it will make it safer is a great way to sell the idea. | ||
| Backcountryme |
When we run shows with the midget and sprint car we have incar communication. But it is one way. We can here the track officials, but not crew to driver. It does help as far as getting the show going. And it isn't that coslty. Our radio was only about $250. I know that on short dirt tracks it is nice to know that there is a yellow or red right away. | ||
| Mbc |
Back,where do you run sprints and midgets ? MBC VRA #2 sprint | ||
| Backcountryme |
Mbc, we raced the midget all over the country. We have run with USAC, SMRS, TMRA, MARA, pretty much every sanctioning body out there. Oh, don't forget Chili Bowl. My dad actually worked at the Chili Bowl company. I was at the first Chili Bowl race before it was actually the Chili Bowl. AJ, Danny and I ran the pits at the Expo Center for years. We only did the sprints a few times in Fort Worth Texas. We are midget guys. Bill Eslick #24 | ||
| Backcountryme |
I changed my profile pic to one of our midgets. We have another one just like the white one with an Esslinger Ford engine in it. Racing is in the Eslick blood. | ||
| Jens |
So, who fit the 450 single first into the XB frame? Jens | ||
| Rubberdown |
Although it would not be for the 450 series, I want to put an Aprilia 550 liquid cooled v-twin in a XB chassis. I think it would be light, quick, and a lot of fun. | ||
| Crackhead |
humm...... sounds like a blast replacement might be coming. Radios are better then flags. They would assist in quicker restarts, remember Daytona. The radios would be used to inform every rider that the yellow flag is out, at the same time. humm, focus on the race track or look way off to the side at the little man waving the flag or the fan that is waving a yellow shirt. Is there any color blind racers in AMA? Using radios cuts out the reaction time of the flag man, and gets the information out that much quicker. | ||
| Blublak |
During Moto-ST they had radios on all the bikes. Comms with the pits worked (I don't know if Moto-GT uses them) well and often would let the crew know the rider was coming in. No hands off the bars, no 'Is he coming off pace' questions since you TOLD your pit you were coming in. It also helped communicate position information ie: "You're running 17 seconds behind third with a 1:46:258 he's running low '47's so you're gaining, but watch out for Team X they're heading out and will be coming on just in front of you, don't worry, they're down 9 seconds." Try that with a pit board.. The downfalls... Too much information or bad radio protocols can cause a real mess. If there is a center channel with Race Control only broadcasting (over wave - like the PD's use - a priority signal that can over ride team communications) warnings and condition reports OR they could send them to the teams and the teams could relay them out.. Proper communication is a good thing, OVER doing it is what's bad. | ||
| Trojan |
focus on the race track or look way off to the side at the little man waving the flag or the fan that is waving a yellow shirt. Is there any color blind racers in AMA?. Or you could just train corner workers/track marshalls etc to a better standard so that they know when to display the correct colour flag. There are also issues at Laguna (and probably other circuits) where the pit wall is unsighted and the worst place to try and display flag, as shown at both the motoGP and the supporting races this year. It doesn't take much to make the system in place successfully around the world work, just training. The current flag system works in everything from F1 to MotoGP to WSB right down to the lowliest club race here. It is communication between the race organisers and the corner workers that needs to be improved. Why spend money and introduce more technology where it isn't needed (unless of course it is to become part of the TV broadcast as suggested earlier, in which case it has nothing to do with safety at all)? As for the 450 class, I think the USGPRU has a much better idea than the DMG/AMA current proposals, but it will be interesting to see how much crossover there is, or even how much take up of the AMA 'spec' chassis/engine there is compared to the 'build your own' USGPRU system. As far as I can make out (and it may have changed since Iread this), the AMA proposal is to find one manufacturer willing to provide bikes for the whole field. These would then be leased for the season by competitors wanting to race in the AMA/DMG class. I think there is also an age limit on this class. USGPRU and other 450Moto classes around the world are pretty open and allow builder to convert almost any current 450MX bike to road racing spec using a few choice components. This allows people who may have 450 bikes laying around (millions apparently in the US alone) to convert them to competitive road racers and even to convert them back again when the mood takes them (Message edited by trojan on September 08, 2009) | ||
| M1combat |
"don't sport car races do this? They are professional racers I do not see a problem with it at all" Cars have mirrors. | ||
| Backcountryme |
I have used one way radios in car racing I have to say that I think it is a great idea. There is no lag time for the race control to get the info to the flagman. It is right away. Race control says there is a yellow, and everyone knows at the same time. It has really saved quite a few crashes due to people not knowing that there is a flag out. |
