| Author | Message | ||
     Jdugger |
I finished my first track day using the Buell suspension components from the race catalog. That is, the 25mm Showa cartridge inserts and the racing shock. In short, I'm pretty impressed. And, I was coming from suspension rebuilt using race tech revalving, so I already had pretty decent suspension. Overall, my opinion is the pieces would be an excellent choice for someone riding in the "A" group or faster at a track day, and should probably be avoided by street riders less than 200lbs. The forks are pretty dang amazing. The range of adjustability for the damping is very impressive. The damping is smooth and fluid. For me so far, the drawback is the stock springs are incredibly stiff. At minimum preload, my 165lbs before gear only achieves 17mm of sag, about 8 short of a "race" setup and a long way from a compliant street set up. At warm-up pace, the bike is almost miserable. Taught, very bumpy. But as pace increases, the controls and smiles go up, too. I improved my personal best on track today by over 1 second on the first day and in the 2nd session on this new setup, so that tells you something. I would rate the bike as miserable to ride at a street pace, but as you approach what would be a novice club racing pace, the bike really comes in and it gives you a lot of control and feedback. At this pace, on the stock suspension at full firmness everywhere, the bike would be ricking like a see-saw! Under the race set-up, everything is settled faster and ready for your input. The throttle is noticeably more connected to the pavement, and trailing off the brakes is made easier to do without upsetting the chassis. To help make up for the over-springing for my weight, I'm running the compression damping about 1/2 in, and the rebound about 2/3rds as a result. (it's a "clicks" adjuster!) I put a zip tie on today and found out I'm using all but about 1.25 inches of the travel, so I'm thinking about just leaving the stiff springs in and upgrading from street tires to DOT race and trying to get my comfort pace up to near where my personal best is today. That alone would put me into the normal operating range of the forks and make me a bit more proud in the process  The rear shock is spectacular. It's also very firm, with good adjustability and fantastic performance. I've got mine set up about 1/2 in on damping, and the spring is just right for my weight with a few turns of preload. Of course, a concern I had given the very stiff fork springs was the bike riding like a Cadillac: front high. We used the ride height adjustment to dial in some ride height -- a tricky operation that does tend to mar the aluminum on the shock body a bit -- but it made a huge difference. I've got the bike turning in fast, while the extra rebound damping in the forks helps hold the forks down under throttle: the bike is steering beautifully, and personally, I credit this rear shock for just how well the rear tire is connecting to the pavement, even under lots of throttle and high lean angles. Overall, I'm really just knocked out. For the $1500 including labor it cost to get this kit in place on the bike, this is a really, really good deal for a track rider. I am honestly reticent to recommend it for a street rider because it's *SO* stiff and firm it would be really unpleasant at street speeds unless you are a heavy rider (at least more than 200lb+gear). Even then I've got to say the damping setup is really with a track application in mind. It does not have a compliant low-speed release built in, and the damping controls range are really with taught, firm settins in mind. It's likely to be a bit of a beating for a typical street rider, even at minimum settings. Certainly someone commuting should look elsewhere. Someone who ONLY rides the "high twisties" at a sporting pace might consider it. For what it's worth, there's no way I'd put this stuff on my street bike, even as I really like it so far (1 day!) on the track bike.} | ||
| Jmr1283 |
nice write up. picked up a lot for 1 day. glad its working. im in the need for lighter springs like you. im 150 with gear on. well maybe 155 in the winter but i only ride in the summer lol. good luck on ur next day out. | ||
| Blake |
Excellent information. Thanks for sharing! | ||
| Slaughter |
I take it, you have no choice for spring rates when ordering the race suspension kit? You should be about a .95 to get your sag about right... something like that. I'd like to think they'd have a selection of 3 spring rates and then just have you give your weight-in-gear and have them pull the correct spring off the shelf. STILL - sounds like a helluva deal (knowing how pricey a Penske can be and what you can have invested in gas cartridges - RaceTech or Traxxion) | ||
| Jdugger |
Had another smashing day today. I got down to 2:04.07 at Eagles Canyon, which would put me squarely in the middle of the pack in novice class club racing around here based on 2008 laptimes. It's also fully 2 seconds faster than my previous personal best. I'm not a racer, so getting this kind of time for me is really exciting! The forks have loosened after me banging on them for two track days straight, and I think the whole bike is really coming in. There's some stiction in the fork travel that's troublesome, but I'm not sure if it's serious yet. I'll have to have someone smarter than me check it out. That rear shock is amazing. It's like a direct connection between the pavement and the throttle. By the end of the day, I could use the throttle in turns 5 and 10 at ECR to point the bike. Basically, it gave me more options on turn in point and braking, knowing that I could just keep the bike on line and get it pointed in the right direction using the throttle. The feel and connection to the ground were amazing. I still stand by my earlier comments about street vs. track. I think for street, getting the forks and shocks rebuilt with race tech stuff and having them valved for street will give a better product. This set up is just NOT compliant at all, and needs to be ridden fast to be enjoyable at all. But for a track bike and rider who's "somewhat fast" to "very fast", I think this suspension kit is really the best deal running. It's fantastic kit for a great price. Mind you, I'm running on Corsa III tires with NO warmers. A couple of my pals that I ride with recently went to slicks and warmers, and knocked 3-4 seconds off with just that move alone. So, I'm starting to seriously consider moving up to a DOT race tire and warmers. I just spooned on the new Bridgestone 003RS that I'm going to try next weekend... I won't have warmers (in theory don't need them for this tire), but it will be interesting to see how they do compared to the Corsa III. I'll try and run some video next weekend, too. All I have right now are some slower laps chasing a couple of guys I was giving pointers to. | ||
| Blake |
Warmers just save you that first lap of having to warm up the tires, and they supposedly help them maintain grip throughout the day by minimizing the temperature cycling. The racing tires will should make a significant difference though. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
So, a big bastard would find the suspension just about right? | ||
| Jdugger |
> So, a big bastard would find the suspension just about right? I think it would help, but do keep in mind the valving is set up for race. This setup would be punishing on a bumpy road. Honestly, I think the valving is such that a heavier rider on the street would like it if they were doing exclusively high twisties at a quick pace. I just can't imagine this set up for commuting or in town of any kind. If you are looking for any kind of plush ride, this stuff isn't for you. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Too bad it's just for 1125s. | ||
| Anonymous |
Optional springs are available for the racing rear shock. It comes with 575 lb/in; rates are available down to 525 lb/in. Call Henry Duga to get them. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Humm...I usually thrash a stock suspension by about 6000 miles. Then I replace it with a quality aftermarket setup. My vendor of choice has been Traxxion Dynamics, but if Buell has a nice solution, I may check it out. Suspension properly set up for your weight and riding needs is the best investment you can make in your bike. I always get a chuckle out of the people trying to get an extra 4 or 5hp out of their bike by bolting on pipes and such, when a proper suspension would make them go so much faster. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Then I replace it with a quality aftermarket setup. Chad, are you talking a rebuild on the stocker (and possibly re-spring) or a whole new cartridge or perhaps all new forks? I am going to update my suspension this winter, but i am torn between a Traxxion rebuild and the new Buell Showa cartridges/shock. The rebuild will be cheaper, but not by a whole lot. The deciding factor for me would be the better performing solution. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Traxxion has nice solution for the forks called the AK-20 and I typically go with a completely new rear shock. The AK-20 solution is a bit pricey, so I typically have the forks resprung and revalved. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
jdUGGER- So you do you think that your too stiff springs are the problem or are you saying that the cartridges themselves are too siff even on the softest settings? | ||
| Jdugger |
Springs are too stiff for my weight. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
So, to clarify, with proper springs, what is your opinion on the Buell suspension versus a quality rebuild/revalve? | ||
| Jdugger |
The Buell solution is a bit better than the race tech set up I had for track applications. btw: I decided to keep my existing springs, move up to DOT race tires and warmers, and just learn to ride better. I'm not much off the pace of needing them this stiff, anyway. |
