| Author | Message | ||
     Etennuly |
This is what I found today.   There is a good probability this is causing my intermittent run-skip-flashy light problem. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Etennuly hope that solves your problem. The insulation looks worse than that on my ETS wire but back where it was lying on the rocker cover. Things I've tried the last couple weeks: New O2 sensor. New intake/injector seals. Advanced timing back to stock. Rerouted wiring and cleaned up grounds. Changed to 20/50 dino oil, then 15/50 Mobil 1 with a new filter. Disconnected the carbon canister line to throttle body and plugged it. New front isolator, I know that makes no sense regarding the CEL but since I replaced it and went to the Mobil 1 the CEL hasn't done the Hot Flashing thing, knock wood... Instead the CEL is now coming on at fwy speeds and staying on, and the ECM is throwing 13 and 21 codes again. Bike is running better than ever even so. Pretty damned frustrating at this point. | ||
| Etennuly |
I found it hard to believe that it would even run with the O2 sensor worn through to the bare wire, and the ETS wire the same, and they were touching each other there! It runs great though. I also replaced the plug over the vacuum port that was lost. While I was at it, I took the front wiring harness apart, repaired all that junk this evening. It is all back together for now. The last part of this project is new plugs. I'm too tired to go there tonite. I will do that when I'm fresh and paying attention to the threads as the plugs go in. During a break today, I wrote down the wiring failures that my '06 Uly has suffered in its three years and nearly 40,000 miles. Each of these has either broken off completely, broken in line causing intermittent problems, or worn through to touch other things. 1.front grounds 2.horn wire plug 3.ECM wires at plugs 4.y/b wire in steering head 5.battery + cable 6.front plug wire 7.wire under airbox that runs over front breather hose 8.#2 coil wire at orig BAS location brkt 9."77" connector 10.cam sensor wires 11.fuel pump wires(all 4) 12.rt turn wire junction in steering head 13.clock/tripmeter retained power wire in steering head 14.O2 wire 15.ETS wire Does this seem excessive to anybody but me?  Thus far I have repaired each of these. Only one so far has come back, the #2 coil wire got back down to where it could wear through again. Amazingly none of the components that are hooked to these wires have failed due to the shorting, breakage, and wear throughs. It has never even blown a fuse, I can't figure out why it hasn't burned to the ground, let alone still run like a champ. I have the service manual for the '05 lightning bikes. About everything crosses to the Uly no problem. Looking through the manual today I noticed the harnesses in the pictures have ribbed aluminum or ribbed plastic sheathing. My Uly has a thin soft cloth self stick wrap that wears through easily, cuts easily, and has almost no structural value. The only ribbed wire covers on my bike have been put there by me. If I didn't have permagrin as often as I do, met some great people because of it, and just in general really having a hoot riding this bike, I would likely have dug a hole and buried the sombich a long while ago. It also helps that I am a professional auto/truck/trailer diagnostic wiring kinda guy who seems to enjoy fixing things that should not be broken.  | ||
| Xbimmer |
Aside from the current CEL gremlins I'm trying to work through, I checked with the closest Buell (not HD...) dealer yesterday to see whether they could warranty my POS CA carbon canister which was puking charcoal granules into my engine and causing the CEL to flash within 5-6 miles. Who knows what the hell is in my combustion chambers now. I politely stated that yes my factory warranty had run out 05/08, but it was my understanding that emissions equipment was warrantied for 5 years/50K and hoped for a "goodwill" coverage since I'd achieved far more than the average mileage in the first three years with 58K on the clock. Being Sunday I credit the kid service writer with diplomacy and understanding. He dug out his warranty coverable info and allowed me to read that HD only covers this stuff for 18K and change... WTH is up with that? I passed 18K 9 months into ownership! Even non-government-mandated parts from HD get a better warranty than that. Since my pinging that two dealers didn't fix within my warranty period has drastically reduced since I blocked off that canister, and my bike's performance has improved measureably, I'd say I probably did more to help CA's emissions paranoia than a poorly running engine would have. Besides that the canister is a joke, a fully fueled XB will bleed fuel vapors into the can when parked and hot, which exits the vent tube to atmosphere anyway. And anybody who fuels up in CA knows you'll dump the remains of the last guy's fuelup onto the ground as soon as you tilt the nozzle, regardless of the vapor recovery system... wow that'll fix the environment. My CEL blinked again today  , but admittedly after trolling through city traffic in the 90's, then ramping it up on the freeway for a few miles. With no pinging going on at the time I can't believe it's that hot. Saga continues. | ||
| Sanchez |
> The exhaust valve actuator (?) on top of the air box is working Is the exhaust valve cycling over and over again while the CEL light flashes? That's a sign that the ECM is rebooting over and over again. When mine did that, it was a bad relay. > my pinging ... has drastically reduced That's easy to fix.  http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/315389.html | ||
| Xbimmer |
Sanchez I remember when you posted that thread and saved it into my Buell Tech folder, good thread! Between you and Davo pushing the procedure I finally did that after my warranty ran out. To reduce my ping to a reasonable level I retarded the timing way too back and then performance definitely suffered, so I picked a middle ground and just accepted the results. In my search to isolate my CEL problems advancing the timing back to stock was one of the first things I tried to reduce possible heat. The predictable result was the return of mass quantities of ping especially in this 90-100 degree heat and in the city and on uphill grades. In my case I'm convinced the canister had something to do with it since it's now out of the loop and my pinging is all but eliminated. Think I'll turn it into an incognito catch can. | ||
| Florida_lime |
I was waiting to dive into possible wiring issues when my new Magnecors and NGK Iridium plugs arrived (to replace what a dealer thew away). Magnecors came in Monday, and the plugs showed up today.(Try finding those 9EIX plugs - all the local auto parts stores showed none available, all the way back to the manufacturer !) Took everything apart, and found what I was hoping to be a possible reason for my skip spark issues. The OEM front spark plug wire wasn't seated in the coil when I removed it. Put in the NGKs, plugged in the Magnecors, then gave all the wiring a thorough exam. Paid particular attention to the O2 sensor/ETS wiring as shown by Etennuly. Nothing obvious, but I did some precautionary taping, and put it all back together. Started it up, and was letting it warm up while I started putting things away. Damn engine light was on.  Did the jumper check - had a 14 -Engine temp sensor. Plus the 21 I had recently was still there. I'm pretty sure my actuator is on it's last legs - sounds like gear teeth going when you test it. After tearing everything apart again, I couldn't find anything obvious, so I may have damaged the sensor. The manual warns about pulling on the wiring, so I may have done that when I was checking the wiring. The service manual tells how to trouble shoot the ETS #14 error, but I didn't see how you remove it from the head. I hope the motor doesn't have to be dropped (for the 5th time !) I loaded the Uly in the van; I'm dropping it off at my not-so-nearby dealer tomorrow. I really like the Uly, but this is really starting to piss me off.  | ||
| Xbimmer |
'Lime the procedure is in there, IIRC you unbolt the tie bar above it and swing it away for clearance, then use a special socket (slotted deep O2 sensor type?) to remove it. | ||
| Xcephasx |
06xb12x, see profile for mods... Same exact CEL error @ freeway speeds. Anything under 70 seems fine, once I start pushing 75-80(~4k), I get the CEL and spark-stop. Granted it is 100deg here@night, but I still think I would be more prone to engine temp errors idling @ rush hour in 110 deg heat, sun, and everyone's car exhaust... I think I talked to al about this a couple of years ago, and he also indicated that a bad worm gear@ exhaust valve could do this. Just thought I would drop my .02 so I could follow this thread. | ||
| Xbimmer |
I think I talked to al about this a couple of years ago, and he also indicated that a bad worm gear@ exhaust valve could do this. Do you mean at the exhaust valve actuator? My bike keeps throwing that code but the valve actuator cycles when I test it. Guess I better pick Al's brain again... | ||
| Florida_lime |
Same exact CEL error @ freeway speeds. Anything under 70 seems fine, once I start pushing 75-80(~4k), I get the CEL and spark-stop. Perfect description of the problem. When I had it apart the other night, I tested the actuator again. It worked, but it did hesitate several times, and one time you could hear the plastic gears binding and grinding before it cycled. I know I had a time a while back when it wouldn't cycle at all, and I wired it open to test it. I did have the same CEL that way too, so I'm not sure if it can be the only answer.  I picked up a new one yesterday (AA updated with the metal gears) along with ordering a new ETS and the comfort package. The actuator was in stock because the dealer had ordered it for me (under warranty) when I complained about it originally, but said it was still good, and didn't put it in. $169 now that it is out of warranty, and still no good. Pisses me off, but this CEL pisses me off more - I just want it fixed. | ||
| Etennuly |
Ok.....I rode mine on the Interstate today. Fifty miles out, running 75 to 80, it was perfect! At last.  Coming back I decided to try to get lost in an area I have never been in. It was close. I ran across the old wrecking yard and ramshackle house that would fit in that movie 'Wrong Turn'. Interesting place. Single lane black top for about eight miles. Popped back out to civilization about an hour later, got back on the Interstate headed home. 80 mph running great, big grin going. Long uphill.....flashy light/run/skip. SHIT! I was instantly so mad I just pinned that mothercrapper! It flashed and ran on one cylinder until it hit 85. I backed off a little and it went back to normal. A couple miles later.....long up hill it did it again. I pinned it again. Hit about 90 and it quit doing it and smoothed out, so I backed off to 80. Next up hill it did it again, I pinned it and it went to 90 quickly and smoothed out. Held it at 80 the last five miles before my exit and it did not do it again! It also began running like a raped ape, the way they do if you run them real hard in the upper RPM range. I have been running it real conservatively for some time now. When I have really flogged it in the past it 'learns' to run that way and really flies. I was going to go back on the Interstate to ride some more as an experiment, when a bee hit me in the front of my neck right over the top of my Buell jacket zipper!  Whipped it off the road into a parking lot pulling off my gloves, helmet, jacket, shirt in a few seconds, that little bastard was still stinging me! Then I got dressed and went home. Has anyone else tried pinning the throttle when it does it? If you do, please get back to us here and let us know if it actually works. I got so distracted at the end of my trip I couldn't concentrate, but it seems to have worked at least to a degree. Maybe the 'ECM learn' program is crapping out? Maybe a re-flash could cure it? Mine has the original '06 flash, it ran so good after the air box mod, I never bothered with the '07 flash. How about you guys? | ||
| Gamdh |
The few times it happened.. I rolled off the throttle. If it happens again (hope it doesn't).. I'll try it and see what happens. As for the ECM, I have the race ECM. | ||
| Florida_lime |
I've often wondered if the ECM was at fault, which prompted my recent Buell race kit (or lack of) complaining. Long uphill.....flashy light/run/skip. SHIT! I was instantly so mad I just pinned that mothercrapper! Etennuly -- same reaction one time after I had worked on it. It really ran awful, but I did not stay on the gas, as I had an exit I could take to loop me back home on some back roads. I decided to get back on the gas HARD, but even though my CEL wasn't flashing, the bike still was running horrible, feeling like it couldn't pull past 80. I had a section of road where sight is limited (and I've often seen the authorities), so I backed it down for a few miles. After that , when I got back on the gas, it ran fine - pulled and held 100 for several seconds without any issues. Mines now in the shop, waiting on a new ETS. We'll see after that if anything I've done works -- if not I'll be shopping either for a race ECM or a 2010. | ||
| Sanchez |
> Does this seem excessive to anybody but me? Yeah. Every single problem on my Uly has been electrical. 1. Turn signal flasher module 2. Steering head wires (not sure which one .. had it fixed under warranty) 3. Fuel pump wires 4. Bad spark plug 5. Interactive exhaust wire from the ECM. I don't think it caused a failure, but I noticed it was worn through. 6. Ignition lead in the ECM (had to replace ECM). Caused by the seat rubbing on the ECM. 7. Ignition relay 8. Plug wire Do you have pics of all the rest of the wiring problems you've had? I'd like to check them proactively before they bite me. | ||
| Werewulf |
my temp sensor wire was rubbed also... anyone have any good suggestions on a sheathing material that i can use on these rub points? | ||
| Gamdh |
I used liquid tape on mine and a few zip ties to hold it in a better position. | ||
| Etennuly |
I just got back from a thirty mile trip, it is worse than it was. It is running great though! Well, right up to the flashy/run/skip any way. Last year I had this issue just before leaving on a four day trip. In about a week or so I leave for a trip. It is a fun bike to take on a trip, but it just doesn't want to go. I have always suspected that the wires are subjected to too much heat. I believe the insulation is failing when it is hot. This bike has only had this problem in this bad of a way in July or August. The rest of the year it seldom ever has happened. For about a year it has been working fine after I found, and fixed, that coil power wire out of the ECM. I'm going to revisit that wire on both ends. If the ends look good that harness is going to get opened up for a closer internal examination. If I don't find anything in there that is a cause, at least it will come away with a proper abrasion proof wire covering. | ||
| Etennuly |
Well, I have been into the wiring harness for a couple of hours. It seems to be as I suspected. In four places the wire insulation has literally fused into the other wires in its own bundle. The wires are not exposed, but how thin does it have to get to leak power signals through? I have found three more places the wires have worn through their insulation to bare wire. One on each injector wire and one on a primary coil wire. There are a couple of wires that may be weak inside the insulation also. The wire bundle runs over the back of the front head. It doesn't have to, and mine won't. All this in time for the factory "RSS comfort kit". I have taken several pictures, I will post them when I can, hopefully tomorrow evening. Froggy, if you are reading this thread, do you have a part number and price on a wiring harness for an '06 Uly? Build date is Dec '05. | ||
| Sekalilgai |
Vern I've only the 07 book and the p/n there is Y0136.1AK. List price of the y0136.1AKA is $331. I've access to our shop where we can solder-and-splice all day long if you'd like. Not exactly fun but if the culprits have been found.... | ||
| Etennuly |
Thanks Ken. The culprits may have been found. I have been happy with it before, to find it wasn't fixed. I am looking for some kind of heat shrink that doesn't require taking the ends off of the wires, and some kind of heat resistant wrap. I really don't want to replace the harness. But I don't want to butcher it up either. More air through there has to be the answer to this problem. I want to hear more about that new kit. | ||
| Xcephasx |
hi spark-skippers... i keep throwing an o2 sensor error associated with this problem, so naturally, i assumed that it could be a faulty o2 sensor. i followed the flow chart, testing the voltage per the shop manual. here is what i found: the flow chart followed to "fuel pressure test" now, i don't have the tools to do a fuel pressure test, BUUUT my fuel is BOILING in my tank. anyone else with this problem's gas cap sound like a pop can when removed? any proof in this pudding? | ||
| Florida_lime |
I had the skip spark issue for over 500 miles on a trip in July. Several times, I got gas immediately after having the CEL flashing. I don't recall any pressurized indications, but I wasn't looking for that either. Maybe I was too pissed off to notice. I was hoping fresh cooler gasoline would help, but was able to get it flashing/stumbling again just minutes later. | ||
| Etennuly |
X, you may need to check the routing and condition of the fuel tank breather. Mine has never had that problem. | ||
| Sekalilgai |
Vern I think you're right with more air. Maybe even reroute part of the harness. As far as I know there is no good heatshrink that allows you to bypass popping pins and such, self fusing tape is available but bulky and not very robust without more tape. We've used teflon jacketed wires for high temp/abrasion but they are bear to work with and not very flexible, not to mention expensive. Teflon sleeving is available as well and priced like gold. I like what you did with the list of 'known' weak points. A new harness with mods on all those weak spots and maybe liberal application of heat-shielding and/or taping the wires to minimize sliding (probably only a concern when it gets hot) would be a good retrofit for bikes that are getting ridden a lot. Does this show up on the other XBs? if not, is it because the Ulys are ridden more? I had the same symptoms last summer and I found one abraded/fused wire on the ECM side of the harness thanks to Vern. So far it hasn't come back other than one legit hot, hot day on the non-moving freeway in San Francisco. This is good test data for the factory, hopefully they are watching closely. Given the similarities in general design, I cannot imagine it not being a help across the Buell line. A 50% credit (call it a core charge) toward a new harness would probably get me to tear into mine! | ||
| Etennuly |
I am putting this thing back together today. Taking more pictures. I have a new question to ponder, for those with this problem. In years past I have worked on a multitude of vehicles produced over a lot of years. We used to have problems with a coil getting over heated and causing it to fail. Given the location of the coil on the Uly, and the heat it endures there, could it be having heat related intermittent failure? I don't know how this new generation of coil compares to the older style oil filled units. | ||
| Etennuly |
 fuel inj wire worn through  Coil wires stuck together, insulation damage from plastic sheath  FI wires worn through from front cyl breather hose rubbing  coil wire insulation fused together from heat | ||
| Etennuly |
 02/ETS fused together by heat  TPS wires fused together by heat  TPS after separated  Spiral cover I used | ||
| Etennuly |
 Tape end, twist to wire, tape full length  In multi wire bundles protect individual wires with length wise wrap of ele tape  Slid spiral cover down the 02 and ETS wires  Rebundled, rerouted, reattached. Attached larger bundle to left frame/tank with velcro. Moved front breather hose to right side. Used cold shrink wrap for multiple bundle areas. Fired right up. Time to test soon. I need time to do a hundred mile slab trip for test. I will get back to this with any news of how it goes. | ||
| Aceldama |
Nice work man, that's some scary stuff. I'm looking at buying a Uly and this is really putting me off on buying a used one. |
