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Cj_xb
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 04:58 pm: | 
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Thanks for the post Bigdaddy !!
And yeah I think mikej is right too, some folks need a baseball bat upside the head to learn, but for sure we all don't !!
And like Ferris pointed out, just because some people are numb to it, doesn't mean we all are, NOR do we ALL need to be that way !!!!
And I keep posting, just cause !!! 
CJ |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 05:46 pm: |
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"There were lots of things back in those days they believed in doing, and they don't practice them today as we've hopefully learned better !!"
Not to pick on you CJ but look at the state of the world today vs. yesteryear... that's not to say that I think the worlds problems will be solved by showing graphic pics to teens, but sometimes offense is needed to get the point across. I think that the people who need a 2X4 to the head to "get it" are more numerous than one might think. I would put them at about 80%.
After saying that though, I'll also add that I think the demographic of this board is such that pics like these will not have quite the effect of "sobering" that the poster MAY have intended as the people of this board seem to be a bit less squidly then most others. |
Cj_xb
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 06:07 pm: |
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but look at the state of the world today vs. yesteryear
I was alive in yesteryear and I personally like my life as much today as I did then, and if you count when I was in high school until I left home a HELL of a lot better since and now !! It's not perfect, but nothing is !!
I would put them at about 80%.
Then I'm proud to be in the 20% !!!
I know just because I have an opinion doesn't mean everyone else's opinion isn't valid, it is !! I just felt like my side needed a little help in the debate, I'm not putting anyone down !!
CJ
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Jim_m
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 06:16 pm: |
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From my perspective, posting grisly pics (I've done so in the past, but, then again, I had a decent enough warning in the title) can serve a purpose...wear your gear, and be alert out there...now these pics don't really show any benefit to wearing/not wearing gear, but if it serves to remind folks to watch thier 6s (and 12s, 3s and 9s and all points between), then that's a good enough reason to post them.
But, I'll grant you, these are probably the worse pics I've ever seen of a bike accident....my heart goes out to their families, as well as the first responders who have to deal with this type of stuff as a way to earn their living. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 06:19 pm: |
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I've buried or said goodbye to exactly 14 rinding friends due to scooter related incidents over the course of the years . . . . . the pics certainly aren't pleasant, won't alter most people's actions, and I really don't care one way or t'other whether they're posted or not . . . . so long as the tag line identifies them so that those that wish to avoid them can, and that's been discussed very well hear (excellent example of a group working together for a desired outcome -- pretty rare in my experience)
however, after reading this thread a couple of times, I realize that it, and it's contents, have helped me formulate a decision that's been hanging fire in my head for quite some time . . . .
"how do you tell a squid that's riding with you that you no longer wish to share the public roadways with them, and to please stop riding with you?"
Ferris' outstanding posts after the BRAG adventure in the Southwest last year but before his own group outing helped me with that decision, and this thread has adaded further weight to my resolve to just come out and say it . . . ..
thanks to all |
Socoken
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 06:37 pm: |
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Ferris, if my last sentence came off as disdainful or condescending, i apologize. I did not see the original title. All i meant was, if you hated those pictures, and you posted to portray said opinion, why continue post the same opinion?
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Ferris
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 06:44 pm: |
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...but if it serves to remind folks to watch thier 6s (and 12s, 3s and 9s and all points between), then that's a good enough reason to post them.
nice words, Jim, and seems to be the popular consensus so far. thank you for your input.
Bomber, my thanks to you also. i have a big enough ego to admit that i'm flattered, and a big enough heart to admit that i couldn't read my safety speech to the Oktoberfast group before we launched Saturday morning thru the tears and emotion, and had to ask Denise to read it instead while i walked off and gathered myself.
i love this sport, and the people involved, and it's important that we do our best to ride to live. this probably sounds odd to some of those who have ridden with me, as i'm not afraid to light the afterburner on occasion, but i ALWAYS try to do it at an "appropriate" time, and i bend WAY over backwards to "protect" the members of any ride i've hand a hand in organizing. hasn't always been that way in my case, but it most definitely is now.
having said all that, it still seems that these pix have done more good than bad, and i encourage those of you who may be lurking to voice your opinion on the matter. stuff like this is important, and everybody's opinion is important.
...been discussed very well hear (excellent example of a group working together for a desired outcome -- pretty rare in my experience)
thank you again Bomber.
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Ferris
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 06:48 pm: |
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Ken, thanks for your response, and i also apologize. i think the fact that we're continuing to post illustrates that this thread is important to us, and in this case i think the caliber of ongoing discussion is a very positive thing.
thanks again for your words Ken, they're very much appreciated.
FB |
M2me
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 08:06 pm: |
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First off let me say thank God this thread has gotten long enough that the photos have been archived.
I don't remember what the original title was but I knew the first time I opened it that it was going to be something graphic. I took one quick look at the first picture and realized that I had seen these photos before on a different site. I then quickly clicked out of this thread.
I don't think looking at photos like this is going to make anybody a better or safer rider. We don't know the details of the accident. Maybe the truck driver suffered a sudden stroke and crossed over the center line. To say, "It really makes you think" or "Gee, I'll always wear a helmet from now on" is silly. The truth might be, "There but for the grace of God go I".
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with posting pictures like these, as long as they are clearly labled. Most people, including myself, have a morbid curiosity about looking at stuff like this. But let's call a spade a spade. It's not rider education or rider enlightenment. It's morbid curiosity, that's all. |
Dino
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 09:32 pm: |
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M2me - Did you actually read the posts on this thread? If you did you should have noticed that there are a number of different reactions to the photos. Not all of them are identical to yours. Some may take something from this other than just a peaked "morbid curiosity." You might not find yourself re-evaluating where, when and how you ride...but others may do just that. To think that everyone thinks and reacts just as you do is not only incorrect...it's silly. |
Racerboy
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 09:40 pm: |
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I have never ridden in Mexico but from talking to other riders that have it is common practice for slow moving trucks to indicate it is "safe" to pass by using their left turn indicator...I just read an article in which two couples rode to the Copper Canyon...One experienced in the Mexican road customs and the other newbies...First couple passes upon seeing the left turn signal and then the second couple does the same...Next time this happens the pillion on the second scooter uses her high tec communication gear to tell her husband that there will be no more of this kind of thing...He get's a fist in the back...I think I agree with her...
Bob |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:15 am: |
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Are those pic's fake? Perhaps from a film set?
Looks more like that bike went over a mine rather than went under or over a truck.
It's amazing what special effects can do these days.
Nice pic's. I've spent ages trying to work out what kind of bike it was they used. The rear hub is the best clue but I just can't remember when I last saw that style hub. Early eighties 1100 Kwak me thinks.
Rocket |
Cj_xb
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:14 am: |
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Nice pic's.
Your joking right ??? Even the most hardened posts here have indicated they are really hard to stomach ?!!!
CJ |
Whatever
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:29 am: |
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I think the general problem with posting anything on a bulletin board is that people will "fill in the blanks" on intent, inuendo and inference...
Just because I had a physical and emotional reaction to the photos does not mean I "have taken offense" or "think the photos should be banned" or "have a weak stomach" or "live a sheltered life" or "can't react in a constructive way at the scene of an emergency".
Ferris asked a question. Adam has not responded. I think he is in Daytona with Spidey right now.
Maybe I keep posting to this thread just because I can.
I think one of the main problems with these forum discussions is that people, with relative anonymity, take actions and feel there are no effects or consequences on/ for other people... but there are real people with real feelings on the other side of the computer screen. A lot of people do not get that... and probably never will.
Just because I felt like barfing after looking at those photos does not mean I am a pansy or a wimp. I have taken more risks to my own personal safety in my lifetime than I care to admit (ie. climbing 200 feet up a cliff in northern Kenya without ropes before realizing it was a bad idea, etc etc etc).
The point is I try not to harm or endanger other people in the process. I don't think something as minor as posting photos like that of complete strangers on a public bulletin board has any effect at all whatsoever on my judgement or riding ability or the kind of person I am (destructive or creative). If it serves you, well, more power to you...
all it proves to me is that people are people and there are certain people I don't like to ride with. 
edited by Whatever on March 03, 2004 |
M2me
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:47 am: |
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I did read the posts on this thread. Some people were asking the question, why post grisly pictures like this? Ferris said "everybody's opinion is important" so I posted my opinion. My opinion is that it only satisfies morbid curiosity. I know that other people might have a different opinion.
Think about this. Forget about motorcycling for a minute and think about using a chainsaw. It's important that you use a chainsaw safely right? You should wear sturdy boots, eye protection, inspect the blade, etc. It's important to learn and follow safety procedures. What about looking at grisly photos of chainsaw accidents? Is that going to make you a safer chainsaw user? My opinion is no. It would only satisfy a morbid curiosity about what happens if somebody accidently runs a chainsaw through some part of their body. |
Cj_xb
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:37 am: |
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I agreed with your original post m2me, there's positively NO educational value in my opinion, and it is MOSTLY morbid curiosity, most people just won't admit that to themselves or others !!
And I'm not saying they shouldn't be posted either, but I will avoid viewing them myself !! And if I accidently stumble on some graphic pics again of dead bodies (with NO warning I might add), as in the past I will simply click off quickly !!
As for posting or not posting, everyone knows I'm probably going to put in my 2 cents worth just cause like Char said, I CAN !!!!
CJ |
Dino
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 12:46 pm: |
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M2me – I didn’t mean to suggest that you shouldn’t post your opinion…of whether the viewing the photos had any value for you. I do have a problem with your assertion that they have no value for anyone and that to say otherwise is “silly.” Are you suggesting that those who posted and said that viewing the photos had value to them are too stupid to know better? Or are they just lying?
Let me put it this way, if an R1 rider told me that all Buell riders rode Buells for reason “xyz” and that for anyone to suggest differently is silly…well, I’d be offended. Wouldn’t you?
That said, if nobody sees any value in having those things posted, let’s trash the buggers.
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M2me
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 02:04 pm: |
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Dino - OK, I'll admit that "silly" was probably not a very good word to use. That's why in my second post I tried to use the words "my opinion" a lot more. I understand that other people might have a completely different opinion than mine and that's fine.
I don't think the photos should be trashed. One value they have is they have gotten a lot of people posting their opinions about it. |
Xb9er
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 02:19 pm: |
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It is an interesting comment about the bodies not being covered. Possibly the photos were taken upon immediate arrival at the scene. Or possibly the photos are for Police documentation/evidence and somehow made their way to the public domain. Neither would surprise me.
Blake, here's what I observed and why I asked the question:
1. All emergency personnel are on the scene in every photo.
2. In each view, the car(s) adjacent to the scene is different. (In this country that road would be immediately blocked off about 1/2 mile on either side of the scene).
3. The fire crew has had enough time to carefully cover the oil slick with dirt and yet the bodies are uncovered! (that was the kicker for me; holy crap!!!)
Could it be cultural?
Wouldn't it be preferable to post a link to those kind of pics rather than upload them here. Give an explanation and suitable WARNING in the post. The Who What Where When Why also need to be posted.
I too want to know why?........ |
Dino
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 02:46 pm: |
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M2me - We're on the same page.
Wouldn't it be preferable to post a link to those kind of pics rather than upload them here. Give an explanation and suitable WARNING in the post. The Who What Where When Why also need to be posted.
Xb9er - Ditto.
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Mark_in_ireland
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 03:31 pm: |
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FYI those photos are about 2 years old...saw them ages ago. |
Cj_xb
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 03:50 pm: |
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Wouldn't it be preferable to post a link to those kind of pics rather than upload them here.
Same thing would apply though, need some type of INTELLIGENT strong wording in the heading/link !!
CJ |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 04:36 pm: |
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Admin...In as much as the original heading for this thread was inadequate for addressing the contents, I find the current heading to be even more offensive.
I made my comment quite early in this thread about the pics and still maintain that position. However, I do not want my family and friends who often enjoy the BWB with me to see current heading, get inquisitive and view the current pics.
Simply put, if certain folks see this, not only would I lose my two up riding partner(s), I would be receiving significant pressure to quit riding altogether. I guess I am employing a double standard as I feel the pics represent a rude awakening for the rider/operator yet I feel the passenger should be spared.
I have been through this before with one of my Ex's and don't care to go through it again. When she had an accident, she quit riding. When I had an accident, she not only quit riding with me but made motorcycling a major issue in our life and you can rest assured it wasn't a positive one.
Hopefully a more neutral advisory heading can be applied. Normally I am not at a loss for words to suggest but in this situation I am. My Sig O just walked buy and saw the heading as I was scrolling past it and I just about got busted. Needless to say I am a tad upset right now.
Thank you for your consideration regarding this matter. In the event a resolution cannot be agreed upon, I would have to change my position and urge banning such pics from the BWB.
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Racerboy
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:17 pm: |
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Of all the posts and opinions the one of Bill's above regarding the exposure of others and the possible effect upon relationships strikes me to suggest this...I think it is time to delete this thread out of consideration for Bill...I think that it had been here long enough and has served some purpose but I would hate to have Bill deal with what may happen if his SO came upon this...
Thanks,
Bob |
Cj_xb
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:36 pm: |
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I find the current heading to be even more offensive.
Thank you for your consideration regarding this matter. In the event a resolution cannot be agreed upon, I would have to change my position and urge banning such pics from the BWB.
I think it is time to delete this thread out of consideration for Bill...
There you have it admin, either change the title AGAIN or ban such pics, or your going to mess up Bill's life !!!
LMAO !!! Don't worry about the rest of us we don't matter, but Please let's not screw it up for Bill !!!
CJ |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:50 pm: |
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Give me a new title and I'll post it. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:55 pm: |
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How about "Naked Dead People With Missing Limbs"? KIDDING!!!
I agree, though I've not been the one to change the title. I think everyone has had a good enough chance to view the topic/pics and it can go away.
Thanks all. Be safe. Don't ride headlong into a truck in Spain or wherever the accident happened. We don't want to see you end up on the internet in such an uncomplimentary position.
Be good.
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Whatever
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:03 pm: |
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Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:03 pm: |
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I left two pics, no victims in them, just the truck and the road being washed down. |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:06 pm: |
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Thanks for your consideration.
I really don't know what the answer is and I originally took the position of an old guy that has seen it all. Well, at least in my mind. LOL
The problem was that this position did not take into consideration our collective family and friends. Quite a different matter even though it is still a selfish "me" attitude so I don't get ridiculed for riding. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:07 pm: |
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Aw come on Blake, can't we blow the pic's up, make 'em a little larger?
Rocket |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:08 pm: |
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Now that is down right funny. Somebody changed the header and dumped the pics while I was writing my last post.
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Jim_m
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 08:50 pm: |
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one final kick at the cat from me...
If, the next time you figure on passing that huge, slow truck in front of you, and you can't see around it (I'm sure a majority of us has, myself included), and you think back to this thread long enough to remember what it looked like when someone ran headlong into another vehicle and you pause for a second just to make sure you're in the clear, then I think that the thread served it's purpose...and that also meets my rambling sentence quota for the day ;^D |
Cj_xb
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:22 pm: |
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How about "Naked Dead People With Missing Limbs"? KIDDING!!!
You are so not a compassionate person, if I ever am in a wreck God I hope your not the only one there to help me out !!
CJ |
Benm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 09:38 pm: |
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I think Blake just had some postings put up about his helping a fallen racer during a recent weekend.
Today, one of the first spring days in the great northeast above 60-degrees, I saw someone on a GSXR in short sleeves, sweatpants, and no helmet. THAT makes me sick. Also, this morning I saw a biker almost get creamed off a two-lane off ramp. Looked like an experienced rider, on a Beemer in an Aerostitch, who let his ego take hold. A fine gentleman in an Oldsmobile Alero was chatting happily on his cellphone while weaving in and out of traffic at 80 mph. Beemer-boy was leaving himself safe space in front of him when olds-twit did the right lane cutoff, just before the off-ramp. About 300-yards later, olds-twit cuts the three-lane to get to the ramp. Beemer boy wicks it up, and passes olds-twit, and gets in left lane of off ramp. At this point, I'm behind Beemer boy, about 2-3 carlengths. Typical off ramp, easy right to hard left under highway. Beemer boy realizes he's in a little hot for the left, and brakes deep, moving to the outside of the inside lane. AT THE SAME TIME, olds-twit cuts from the RIGHT exit lane, to the left, directly in front of me. I was already on the brakes, but had to lock them up to avoid hitting olds-twit, who just missed taking out the Beemer. Heart stopping? For me, yes. Twit boy never put down the phone.
Lessons? Pictures & stories alike, you're not allowed to have an ego on a motorcycle. That story could have ended much differently, maybe like the pictures posted here indicate. They serve the same function as the driver's ed pics we all saw in high school. Ride aware! |
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