| Author |
Message |
    
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 01:58 am: | 
|
She does have more cup-holders thou.
well there you go! with the price of Starbucks, you certainly wouldn't want to spill any! That alone is well worth the price of a new vehicle. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 08:36 am: |
|
I got invited to see the new Ford SHO last night and am ticked that I couldn't go. Ford may have a huge strategic opportunity at present.
I would not even consider a car from a firm the government is manipulating. Although . . . you could make a strong argument, after all their years of imposing standards to insure American cars competed on a federally unleveled playing field, that all the automakers are manipulated.
Ford plays their cards right this could work well for them. I'll bet the Obama administration somehow handicaps" Ford to prevent "predatory selling". |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 09:05 am: |
|
I'd seriously consider a truck with some form of cylinder deactivation now.
The one I'm looking at only has 5 to start with! No full-size for me, don't need it.
If you are looking for a truck (I drive a 2006 F-150 XLT SC) and have ANY concerns about gas mileage you will be looking for a long time.
Not concerns so much as a general inquiry. I just cut my commute from 11 miles one-way to 1 mile. Not that it was bad to begin with, but gas mileage is even less relevant now. |
Fast1075
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 09:16 am: |
|
The best small pickup (actually the only small pickup today) is the Ford Ranger..I love mine. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 09:17 am: |
|
To The Crusher!
The law is very explicit on this point: the car has to be crushed. No salvaging it. No retitling it. No shipping it off to another country. The car has to be crushed and the title has to be transferred. Anyone trying to pass the voucher off and then resell the car could be penalized $15,000 per violation. However, you can strip and sell any part of the car that isn't the engine block.
How is this helping anyone??? The 1895 model year cutoff doesn't do me any good in terms of saving classics. Go ask someone who was around in 1979 about what a 1969 Nova SS was worth? The answer was not much. I think we're going to be destroying a lot of hisotry with this bill.
And this whole bill does nothing but make for an inflated demand for new vehicles. This isn't really a bad thing for the short term, but the program is only going to last a year - it's not anything that can be sustained, especially in this economic climate. Best case scenario is you encourage all those people who were planning to buy a new car in the next year or two to buy now instead, which means the boom in sales is followed by a slump because anyone who CAN be driving a new car already is.
As for the consumer? Explain to me how trading in my SUV that I spend $250/mo in gas on is worse than buying a new small car that I spend $150/mo in gas and $300 in loan payments???
And I didn't read it anywhere - but does this limit the program to the purchase of new Domestic vehicles only? If it doesn't, it really should. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 09:21 am: |
|
The best small pickup (actually the only small pickup today) is the Ford Ranger..I love mine.
I've been doing a bit of looking. I'm a GM guy, but I've been looking around. Chevy Colorado, Ford Ranger, Toyota Tacoma (would never buy, but for research's sake), and the Dodge Dakota. Similarly equipped, they all cost pretty much the same (yup, even the Ranger) except for the Dodge which is thousands more, mostly because it's just a much bigger truck.
The Chevy isn't much bigger than the Ford, and I like the looks a bit more - so despite the ownership crises of GM, it still gets my pick for what I would buy, if I buy. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 09:26 am: |
|
>>>but does this limit the program to the purchase of new Domestic vehicles only? If it doesn't, it really should.
That . . . under the Obama Administration would be "discrimination".
There were some "Buy American" provisions in the billions of stimulus dollars . . . I haven't followed it closely but some foreign firms have already brought actions. The one I read the other day were Canadians who are suing to get access to the funds.
Shouldn't be a problem . . . . as here in New York we are having towns that are getting millions of dollars they didn't request for things they don't need.
quote:The Town of Union is getting $578,661 in federal Recovery Act funding for a homeless problem that may not exist within its borders.
The money is coming from the federal Housing and Urban Development program to pay for homeless prevention and emergency shelter programs.
Union did not request the money and does not currently have homeless programs in place in the town to administer such funds, said town Supervisor John Bernardo.
“We were surprised,” Bernardo said. “We’ve never been a recipient before.”
Bernardo said he isn’t aware of any homeless issue in the largely suburban town.
Don't mess up my chance to ditch my fuel guzzling 2006 F-150 for a fuel efficient Porsche.
 |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 09:29 am: |
|
I have a quad-cab Dakota 4.7L. I city commute 20 miles one way. I want to get rid of it, but that's not gonna happen.
14-17 city, 20-21 hwy. Pulling a boat, 10 city, 14 hwy. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 10:00 am: |
|
Don't mess up my chance to ditch my fuel guzzling 2006 F-150 for a fuel efficient Porsche.
Unless you're planning a getting a base model Cayenne, you better get a hell of a deal on that Cayman to meet the $45,000 cap  And an S model? Forget it.
As pro-American as I am... man, I want a 911 Turbo in the worst way... Now where did I put that $130,000... |
Fast1075
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 10:07 am: |
|
My previous daily driver was my beloved '91 Jeep Comanche (heavily modified)...I got too carried away with the performance stuff and big tires and steep gearing and such when gas was still relatively cheap...the fuel mileage got down to around 10-11 mpg...she is now a trail queen...replaced by my new Ranger that gets 22mpg on average.
(Message edited by fast1075 on June 19, 2009) |
Wolfridgerider
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 10:28 am: |
|
I think I may trade my 1992 Chevy G-20 for a Hyundai Accent.
The van was free to me.... Now its worth 4500 bucks
Accent Base model
+$9970
-$4500
=$5470 for a new car.... then... maybe, just maybe I would turn around and sell it for 8000 or so...
I just got $2530 bucks for my old clunker... kewl! |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 10:49 am: |
|
Anybody run a Honda Ridgeline? I'm considering one of these next. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 11:14 am: |
|
Bhillberg, I did come off as a bit of a dick, I apologize. I was simply trying to state the facts to correct your statement.
quote:Yeah I guess that there is no possible way that the auto makers could be somehow footing this bill?
The automakers are not footing the bill. This was originally proposed to be part of the stimulus package a few months ago, but ended up getting cut. It is back now, more watered down and and too restricted to be beneficial to most.
quote:That the dealers could be instructed to somehow make some of that money back?
No, no there is no way that there could possibly be any dirty business.
The dealers don't lose a cent, thats the point I am trying to make. I am sure there is some paperwork involved, but its just an extra sheet when you are already signing a novels worth a paperwork to buy a new vehicle. As for someone doing something dirty? I am sure someone will try something, its just human nature.
quote:I did click and do some reading, and I do believe that there COULD be some inflating of the prices in this deal.
I personally doubt it, dealers overall are hurting, and most consumers will be looking for bargains in this economy. It would be harder to pull it off, but not impossible.
quote:I mean why in the world should the government be shelling out more money they don't have to help you or me get a car?
It will help the entire auto industry as a whole, which is hurting badly. All the auto makers need to keep making the metal move, in the end it will help out the economy by getting people to spend money. The total cost to Americans will be a drop in the bucket compared to everything else. They have over restricted it to the point that the majority of car buyers would not be able to take advantage of it.
Chainsaw, I brought up similar comments when talking about old cars vs new. Ok lets take your Jimmy, and the Xterra.
Curb weight: Jimmy 3677lbs (according to one site, I can't find a reliable source), Xterra 4300lbs. The higher curb weight is due to more safety equipment and other government mandated equipment for things including emissions. This is a significant fuel economy penalty.
Safety: Lets take your Jimmy, and the Xterra, and have them have a head on collision at about 40mph. Tell me who will most likely walk away
Performance: Even if your Jimmy has the 5.7L, at best is a a 255hp engine. Then you got a wonderful 3 speed slushbox putting it to the wheels, it is a wonder how the thing even goes forward!
Emissions: I don't think I even need to comment
Reliability: Which one has a higher change to start tomorrow morning?
Handling: I sure hope I am not in a 20 mile radius of you should you have to make an emergency maneuver!
I could go on, but my ultimate point is, that a modern vehicle is superior to a near 40 year old truck. Some of those improvements came at a cost in fuel economy, and if you got rid of government regulations and maximized economy, they would get significantly more. Just look at the death trap Geo Metro's, I know a guy that gets over 100mpg on his, but I don't want to see the carnage should something catastrophic happen.
Mark, by the 5 cylinder comment, I am assuming you mean the Colorado, Canyon, or H3. They are good little trucks, but you knew that already. I want one, but they don't offer the V8 with a stick! 
Also with a 1 mile commute, seriously consider taking a bicycle. No gas, makes you healthier too. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 11:23 am: |
|
The bicycle will be out big time. If it's not too cold or raining, I'll be pedaling to work. We have a lax enough dress code that I can get away with it.
Yeah, I'm looking at the Canyon/Colorado. You can't get a stick with anything but the 4 cyl anymore, which I would consider, but the towing capacity is drastically less on the 4cyl than the 5 or 8. I would be considering the H3T if they didn't force you to get a crew cab.
I'd love the 8, but can't justify the cost or mileage on that for what I need it for. At that point, I'd rather just buy a new SS Camaro and put a trailer hitch on it, lol.
(Message edited by xl1200r on June 19, 2009) |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 11:33 am: |
|
|
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 11:36 am: |
|
Don't do that to me... I can't afford it, haha. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 11:50 am: |
|
Funny thing is, I googled "camaro towing" looking for some rednecked IROC with a boat or quad or something dragging behind it, then I found that! |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 11:57 am: |
|
That's a preproduction model they were using for testing - you can tell from the goofy little headlights. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 12:01 pm: |
|
>>>get a hell of a deal on that Cayman to meet the $45,000
Doable.
I can do that and get change. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 12:46 pm: |
|
Must be one hell of a markup on them there German cars! |
Chainsaw
| | Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 10:38 am: |
|
Curb weight: Jimmy 3677lbs (according to one site, I can't find a reliable source), Xterra 4300lbs. The higher curb weight is due to more safety equipment...
The higher curb weight is due to the higher number of cup-holders on the Xterra. Some of 'em are large enough to hold Big Gulps. . Really, how much can airbags and ABS weigh?
Reliability: Which one has a higher change to start tomorrow morning?
New crate engine installed in mine 2 years ago. 100,000 mile warranty thru GM. 20 below zero and fires up on the first try. Never had an issue with the handling either. You may have heard this before, but short wheelbase stuff tends to turn pretty well. *cough-XB-cough*
Only 4 wheeled vehicle I've ever owned, I've made my fair share of successful emergency maneuvers (with one noteable exception when I was 18), and I haven't rolled the thing yet.
Safety: Lets take your Jimmy, and the Xterra, and have them have a head on collision at about 40mph. Tell me who will most likely walk away
I personally field tested that scenario in 1988. Head on at 40mph, but I was applying the brakes. I destroyed a Mazda 626. I had a bent brush bar and had to wipe white Mazda paint from my bumper. Zero injuries in either car, his got towed off, I drove off. My insurance agent couldn't believe the lack of damage to mine. IIRC her exact words were "I should buy me one of those!". Who needs airbags and crumple zones?
Had a drunk friend hit my truck while pulling into the driveway. He tore clean thru 9 feet of Toyota body panels. I had to wipe blue paint off my bumper that time.
Damn thing has survived numerous hailstorms without a single dent. I'm talking about golf ball size hail that has 'totaled' the cars parked around it. My truck was built back when they used to make cars from steel, not recycled Bud Light cans.
Last time I checked the blue book value on mine, it listed $16,000. I wonder what a used 2007 Xtera is worth right now? No way I'll let my truck be crushed for $4500.
I know your just busting my chops Froggy. Old cars are not without their charm. |
Johnnylunchbox
| | Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 01:14 pm: |
|
Froggy, my 20 year old alfa romeo is worth more than $4500. It's the only vehicle in my stable that I believe is appreciating in value. |
Just_ziptab
| | Posted on Saturday, June 20, 2009 - 11:56 pm: |
|
Quote"As for the consumer? Explain to me how trading in my SUV that I spend $250/mo in gas on is worse than buying a new small car that I spend $150/mo in gas and $300 in loan payments???" It is neart impossible to "trade up" to a better mileage vehicle and come out ahead in"dust to dust" in the dollar department. Gas would have to go way above $10.00 a gallon, for me to come out ahead in a 47 mile commute. Do the math....figure the increased insurance,the loan and in Iowa ..the frickin doubled in price......license plates. I'm keeping my 98 S-10 at 28.7 mpg for a damned long time yet. |
Johnnylunchbox
| | Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 12:09 am: |
|
Ziptab, you've hit the nail on the head. The most economical car you can get is the one that you already own, and runs well.
It probably takes more energy to make a car, than it does to power a car for several years. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2009 - 12:28 pm: |
|
Just and Johnny - exactly, especially if that car is paid for. And if what you've got is worth less than $4500 in order to make taking advantage of the program worth it, you probably own it outright.
Question -
Let's say I have a newer SUV and want to trade it in on a Prius... and let's say my SUV is worth $10k at trade it. Does the dealer give me $10k for the trade, PLUS $4500 because of this program? Or do you only get one or the other? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 01:06 pm: |
|
Mark from what I understand its on top of your trade in. Also, your new "vehicle" can have 2 wheels. Free new Blasts anyone? |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 03:38 pm: |
|
How can be on top of your trade if the gov't requires it to be crushed? If the gove't sends the dealer a $4500 check for my SUV that the dealer just gave me $10,000 for, doesn't seem like it'd be in the dealers interest to crush it and throw out $5500. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, June 22, 2009 - 03:54 pm: |
|
I see what you are saying, I will do some more reading. |
|
