| Author | Message | ||
     Davegess |
Court exagerate with the racing never made a bike company but in the US road racing is of little importance. Well over two thirds or ALL bikes sold here are Cruiser or touring bikes. Sport bikes, standards, naked bikes are less than 1/3 of the pie and most peopel who buy those here pay no attention to racing. I wonder if the US racing series is of more value to the bike companies as advertising in Europe? Perhaps that is why they have been so oppose to tyuring anything different than what is done elswhere? If the Europeans think the US championship is meaningless and the US market ignore it why race here? | ||
| Jaimec |
Dave, We have a very strange and unique motorcycle culture here, don't we? The younger generation has no interest in cruisers or standards and buy mostly sport bikes. Yet, in a weird, head-scratching way they also have no interest in racing either! I've been to a few "sportbike" gatherings and the modifications I've seen have had little to do with improving handling and more about adding "Bling." I guess in a country of primarily long, straight flat roads, our youth is more interested in straight line performance than how well the bike goes around curves. It gives me chest pains to see what should be a great handling bike slammed to the ground, and a couple of FEET added to the wheelbase with an extended swing arm. The other popular additions are 12:00 bars and stunt cages. You'd think DIRT BIKES would be more popular for that kind of thing but here we go again looking for "logic" where there isn't any. Very strange... | ||
| Davegess |
Matt, do the manufacture actually advertise the results of AMA racing in England? Has it been widly covered in the past? Road racing here so small time as to be ridiculous. I ahve been going to Daytona on and off for over 20 years and if you took the total attendance for that 20 years you couldn't fill the grandstand for one race. There are likly as many people at the Short track race than are at the road race. I have never been to the supercross but that has to be better attended also. An AMA superbike weekend is lucky to draw 30,000 people. (They count the guy who buys a weekend pass as three admissions even though it cost $20 for one day and only $30 for all three) so take any weekend attendance figures you may have seen and cut them in half. There are high school football teams that draw as many people. | ||
| Rubberdown |
The Daytona Supercross about fills the front stands, even in the rain. It is well attended and entertaining. | ||
| Court |
You'd have a heck of a time making a legitimate business case for racing in the United States. | ||
| Rubberdown |
It would also be difficult to garner a significant market share of the sportbike business without racing your product. | ||
| Court |
If you asked those kids who buy 90% of the sportbikes to name one famous racer they'd look at you like a puppy looks at an oscillating fan for the first time. Splash graphics . . . . that's the key. And they are huge fans of TOP SPEED. . . . 178 will outsell 174 any day of the week. They tend to become adolescent bug splatter but they love their speed. | ||
| Court |
If you asked those kids who buy 90% of the sportbikes to name one famous racer they'd look at you like a puppy looks at an oscillating fan for the first time. Splash graphics . . . . that's the key. And they are huge fans of TOP SPEED. . . . 178 will outsell 174 any day of the week. They tend to become adolescent bug splatter but they love their speed. | ||
| Rubberdown |
"they'd look at you like a puppy looks at an oscillating fan for the first time" Gotta remember that one .... hehehe | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
I guess in a country of primarily long, straight flat roads, our youth is more interested in straight line performance than how well the bike goes around curves. I think the painful truth is that it takes no skill what-so-ever to make a bike go fast in a straight line. It makes perfect sense that the buyer interested in bling and swingarm length has no interest in road racing- their world is more akin to a fashion show as opposed to the skills and physical ability it takes to make a bike perform on a track. It's the same crowd that takes 4 cyl import cars and adds hundreds of pounds of weight in speakers, amps, garish interiors/paint, and neon lights and considers it "performance upgrades". I find it embarrassing, but in America there's a seat for every a$$. | ||
| Jaimec |
On the other hand, the Red Bull MotoGP in Indianapolis drew over 90,000 people on race day during the tail end of a hurricane. And don't forget the first MotoGP at Laguna Seca after ten years was the first event in track HISTORY to sell out BEFORE the day of the actual event... Now that Ben Spies and John Hopkins are in World Superbike, I expect to see re-energized interest in that series over here too. Let's see how Miller looks at the end of May... | ||
| Greenlantern |
I find it embarrassing, but in America there's a seat for every a$$. And plenty of a$$ for every seat.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
I wonder if the fact that some of the EU has licenses tiered by CC make displacement based classes more attractive there. Here in the US, where I don't have to ask Mom permission to ride a big boy bike, displacement borders on irrelevant. As witnessed by the fact that the R1 guys aren't trading up to big twins... (Message edited by reepicheep on March 27, 2009) | ||
| Trojan |
Matt, do the manufacture actually advertise the results of AMA racing in England? Has it been widly covered in the past? These days it isn't an advertising coup like it used to be when a bike won at Daytona. I doubt if anyone who doesn't follow racing very closely would know (or care)who won this year. I can remember when the Daytona 200 and Ontario 200 were definitely front page news in the MCN, and were used as a huge selling point by the winners (Triumph/Bsa/Honda at that time mostly, which shows how long ago it was). At that time the grids were absolutely full to bursting and everyone who was anyone in racing wanted to be there to race. Manufacturers viewed a victory at Daytona in the same way as a victory at the IOM and probably more importantly at that time than GP results. Factories and World Champions wanted a victory at Daytona on their CV as much as any of the other 'major' races of the era, and the likes of Agostini, Saarinen, Hailwood, Sheene etc would take Daytona very seriously indeed. Just look at the boost that Honda got from Dick Mann's victory. At that time H-D also took their racing very very seriously and were not afraid to put a full factory team out there. Racing was admittedly very different back then. Riders could ride in 3 or 4 classes in a single day and ofter for more than one manufacturer. Hailwood would ride a works MV in one race then a private Ducati 250 in teh next at some meetings. Rider contracts were a 'loose' affair allowing riders to pretty much race where they liked so long as they turned up at contracted meetings. GP racing back then was pretty much in the doldrums, with most of the factories pulling out leaving MV to win everything for years. Ago would often lap the entire field (mostly ageing Manx Nortons) on his way to another processional victory. However, the Status of Daytona remained high long after those days, even to the point where Scott Russell was THE man to beat we would still get pretty extensive coverage of the race over here. AMA results would feature widely in the bike newspapers and magazines over here regularly, whereas today they only EVER get a mention if a Brit is involved in some way. Chaz Davies's 200 'win' last year got a brief mention on the inside pages. Other AMA races wouldn't get the same fuss as Daytona/Ontario, but would still get a mention. The AMA is no longer the Big Fish of world Superbike or GP racing and Daytona has degenerated to a club race really. WSB is in the ascendancy and cannot do any wrong at present so viewers & sponsors are attracted like moths to a flame. Countries like Spain and Italy are now providing the bulk of riders at GP and WSB level, so the spotlight has moved away from the US for a while. Ben Spies may change that of course, but it is increasingly difficult to see where the next Spies will come from. The gap in technology between the AMA and WSB/GP field will only widen now and it will take an exceptional rider to make the jump in future. Maybe the answer for future US stars is to do what Stevie Bonsey has done and get in at the ground level in 125GP. The attitude of the fans is also a factor for sure. Over here it is not unusual to get 20,000 at a decent level club meeting and 75,000-100,000 at a WSB meeting. Even practice and qualifying gets huge crowds here. MotoGP was at an all time low around 5 years ago and the crowd at Donington Park GP was less than 30,000. These days you get more than that for Friday practice. The pendulum swings and maybe the AMA will get another turn in the spotlight of world racing, maybe they won't. One thing is for sure though. The rest of the worlds organisers won't want to get into bed with DMG any time soon because their own series are enjoying such massive popularity. If it ain't broke don't fix it.  Back in the days when Daytona really was spectacular! both #1 Brelsford and the Fallen rider #94 Larry Darr were on Alloy XR's.Darr's bike Blew an engine in corner 1,a rider on a 350 yamaha hit the oil Darr's bike left and caused him to crash into the Leaders Duhammel (Kawasaki) and Bauman (Suzuki). Also center punched Brelsford's Fuel Tank spewing Fuel on the Pipes. Brelsford was actually about to be lapped by the leaders so he was a backmarker himself...Brelsford broke both legs and shattered his wrist and hand - fortunately he was not burned too badly! Funnily enough, even back then maybe Daytona was more popular over here than it was amongst US fans. Take a look at the grandstands behind the crash...is that tumbleweed I see? | ||
| Davegess |
My hope is that DMG can fix it and Motorcycle racing can begin to grow no shrink in the US. The way it has been going in the last 10 years would see it go away completly in another 10. | ||
| Bads1 |
Tumble weed's??? If DMG doe's with motorcycles that they have with Nascar. Well..... this is the end result.  | ||
| Court |
Okay . . . . now we rejoin reality . . . . already in progress. | ||
| Trojan |
Is that Buddy Holly I hear?............................That'll be the day..... | ||
| Fast1075 |
Sounds good Court....but we will need the fans in Geico/Buell Yellow....instead of Earnhardt RED....LOL | ||
| Xb984r |
Let me ask again, how does the 1125 race bike weigh 22 pounds more than Buell claims for the stock bike? | ||
| Davegess |
"Let me ask again, how does the 1125 race bike weigh 22 pounds more than Buell claims for the stock bike?"  Buell, like everyone else use a mythical dry weight which is undefined and seeminly undefinable. I have never seen a manufacturers claimed dry weight that would match a real bike. Seemingly they take all fluids including sir out of the bike and that is the dry weight. Some are closer to reality than others. The race bikes have a real disadvantage here; they actually get weighed and weighed with some fluids on board. To get an idea of the real weight of a stock bike check out the Cycle World road test. That is pretty good. | ||
| Doerman |
It has become a silly standard that manufacturer's claimed dry weight is a bike without: - gas - oil - coolant - battery Japan Inc started that tradition and everyone else was compelled to followed this "Slimfast" approach (apples to apples). A race bike is weighed post race with whatever gas is left in the tank. That post race check determines if the bike is in rule compliance. That is the condition Eslick's bike was in when weighing in at 397 lbs. | ||
| Court |
Manufacturers weights are right up there with EPA mileage estimates and "if we just spend a bit more we'll be out of debt" in terms of government truth telling.  | ||
| Trojan |
Buell, like everyone else use a mythical dry weight which is undefined and seeminly undefinable. I have never seen a manufacturers claimed dry weight that would match a real bike. Until recently Buell used to pride themselves that their published weights were for 'real' bikes including fluids (exc fuel), so when did it change and why? | ||
| Davegess |
Matt, not sure that has changed. I assumed they did like everyone else that would be why the weights were different. Of course I don't even know what the claimed weight of an 1125R is I am likely completly wrong | ||
| Doerman |
When: I dunno Why: Already mentioned - apples to apples | ||
| Madduck |
I think "race bike" weights are under discussion. Buells "street bike" weights are pretty close to actual running with half tank of fuel. YMMV. | ||
| Bads1 |
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=35954 | ||
| 46champ |
Well that was refreshing Kevin could have unloaded on Buell and DMG just like alot of others. | ||
| Blake |
Buell publishes the actual wet weights as well as the dry. The dry were always shipping weights, sans fuel and oil and battery. |
