| Author | Message | ||
     Swordsman |
I saw a report on the news last night claiming that motorcycle accidents here in the states killed more of our military personnel last year than enemy fire in the Middle East. How sad is that? They were talking about new "motorcycle simulators" the military had purchased to use as training for the soldiers so they don't wipe out. I'm just guessing, but I'd think a small fleet of Blasts and an MSF course would have been a much better way to spend the taxpayer money. I can understand needing a simulator for a $1.5 million-dollar fighter jet, but for a $5k bike? ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on March 19, 2009) | ||
| Hughlysses |
SM- I know the Navy at least implemented new requirements starting February 1st. Up until then, you had to complete the BRC or equivalent, have a motorcycle endorsement, and wear appropriate gear (mostly) to ride on base. As of 1 February 2009, within 1 year after the BRC you have to complete either the ERC or a new MSBRC (military sport bike riders course) to be able to ride on base. I believe you have to complete the MSBRC before you can ride a sport bike on base regardless of how long since you completed the BRC. I'm sure this will help, but I imagine there are still a lot of military guys keeping bikes off base who ride without any training. The simulator seems like a pretty stupid thing. | ||
| Spdkls |
the problem, unfortunately is that most military guys are squids. i ride with them everyday. there are 50% cruisers, 45% rockets, and the other 5%. at least thats what my last base stats showed us. most of the rocket guys are under 24. almost all the cruiser guys were over 28. math starting to work out now. hell, we had an accident during a quarterly safety ride at 10 miles an hour all because the kid wasn't looking when we were turning. so i can believe it. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The stats are true, unfortunately. We're (Buell of Frederick) participating in a safety day at Ft Detrick, MD, in May. Gotta find a way to keep our men and women safe...at the very *least*, while they're at home. I suspect a lot of it may be mental. "They've trained me to dodge bullets and blow up tanks...a motorcycle is *nuthin*". Physics is still physics, unfortunately... | ||
| Spdkls |
my ex-commander tried to get newbie riders not to buy the superbike class as a first ride. she couldn't stop them from buying but only encourage them to buy smaller. she even flinched when i told her about my bike, until she saw it. her favorite quote about bikes was "you can't teach stupid, but i will always try" | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you look at the Hurt Report, and map the demographics of the average soldier into it... you can see they are in trouble the moment they touch a bike. Nothing training and preparation can't balance... but the demographics will make that hard also. It will always be a dangerous to be young... Then it gets dangerous again to be old, you just die in less interesting ways  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Friggin nanny state mentality. Motorcycles are dangerous, motorcycles are risky, want to stay truly safe?... go sit on the couch and play Xbox; just watch your cholesterol level and stay away from bacon wrapped sausage bacon log. 35 years riding, 15 years in the military, I dont see what one has to do with the other. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
The numbers have been climbing steadily since 2004 - corresponding to the first wave of deployed soldiers returning stateside with a year's worth of tax free income. I don't know the specific stats for other branches, but a majority of Navy fatalities have been on 1000+ cc bikes. The training programs won't solve everything but it's a great step. I've done the BRC and ERC, scheduled for the SBC next month. IMO what really helps is a command sponsored riding group led by experienced riders. Any service members that choose to ride without the class or proper equipment, DoD is not required to cover medical bills after an accident, or life insurance in the case of a fatality. BTW the only requirements are any DOT helmet, eye protection, long sleeve upper garment (must be 75% reflective at night), long pants, and shoes that go to the ankle or higher. That bare minimum should be worn all of the time anyway.. | ||
| Bill0351 |
From my limited personal experience, pk is dead on. Guys come home from deployments with a pocket full of cash. For a lot of them, the first thing they want to buy is a bike. Out of my Platoon, there were tons of guys who bought motorcycles before we even left the country. A guy I'm still good friends with had his GSX-R600 waiting in his parent's garage for months before we even got home. He had never ridden anything bigger than a scooter, but within hours of getting back he managed to get pulled over for speeding and riding without a license. My other friend (the gunner on my M1114) had one waiting too. He bought a GSX-R750 because he was worried a 600 wasn't going to be fast enough. I really don't know what the solution is, or even if there should be one. After all, these guys are grown men. Most of them had the balls to enlist as grunts when they knew with near 100% certainty that they would be deployed. On the other side of it, when you enlist, you become property of your branch of service. You voluntarily waive lots of the freedoms that civilians have. As much as that can suck, that's the rules and we all signed the contract voluntarily. | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
Any service members that choose to ride without the class or proper equipment, DoD is not required to cover medical bills after an accident, or life insurance in the case of a fatality Sorry, not true PK. If a servicemember is covered by SGLI (ie on active duty) his life insurance will be paid. There are no conditions for payment. If the servicemen dies, his insurance is paid, period. http://www.insurance.va.gov/SGLISITE/SGLI/mythsRum ors.htm Also, there are no exceptions for emergency, trauma, or rehab for vehicular accidents. There may be issues with reconstructive medicine but that seems to be on a case by case basis anyway. https://www.hnfs.net/common/benefits/benefits_limi tations_exclusions.htm If you have a real information source other then what somebody told you, I'd like to see it. Not trying to bust you out just trying to quell some of the rumors that typically surround military benefits. Course if its a resevervist/guardsman not on active duty then his own insurance may vary. And Spdkls:the problem, unfortunately is that most military guys are squids. I would argue that most guys in general are squids. More so then any time in my career the military seems to reflect society. Cityslicker I couldn't agree more!! I thought I'd never hear myself say this but I guess I'm from the old Army. The type of people attracted to the military are those with more gusto then the general population. They work hard, drink hard, F*ck hard, fight hard, and yes play hard... Time usually tempers that exuberance to a degree (so i'm told  ) | ||
| Midknyte |
Could it be, that our weapons and our medicines & treatments have simply advanced to a point where it is possible for motorcycles and other civilian pursuits to be considered as / more dangerous? | ||
| Bill0351 |
"Could it be, that our weapons and our medicines & treatments have simply advanced to a point where it is possible for motorcycles and other civilian pursuits to be considered as / more dangerous?" The statistics are misleading in a way. A fobbit working deep in BIAP has a nearly zero chance of getting killed by hostile fire so the motorcycle stats are really high. A door kicking grunt, or escort crew is a very dangerous occupation and their hostile fire deaths are going to be way higher than motorcycle deaths. Actually FIGHTING a war is way more dangerous than riding a motorcycle. | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
I don't think so, who knows. I do think we've 'advanced' to a point where we as a society view death as something curable. Mikes random thought of the day: I don't want to live forever. Maybe I'll die tommorrow, maybe 70 years from now. It might be gruesome, it might be peaceful. It may be a noble sacrifice or it may be pointless. The dates on the tombstone mean nothing, it's what happens in between. I had a crappy birthday yesterday so maybe I'm just a little down. Keep the shiny side up! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Immortality is over-rated, who wants to spend 40 years in a scooter chair just to get their name read by a cloned Willard Scott from the morning show | ||
| Patrickmitchell |
The military is taking a very active role in reducing motorcycle related injuries. MSF courses are mandatory if you want a base driving sticker. The Marine Corps is paying for Marines to attend Keith Code schools, and they are even starting to run track like events on bases (Camp Pendleton being the specific that I know about). Unfortunately, anytime you get young people on high performance sport bikes; some bad news is inevitable. Young servicemen and women, make a decent living. Often they live in the BEQ, eat in the mess halls, and have very little overhead. This allows very young people access to some very powerful toys... It is also unfortunate that judgment needs to be learned the hard way. With bikes of any kind, that can be a bad combination. What should be taken from the comparison of the death in action and the death on bikes stats is how well we are doing in the middle east. | ||
| Spdkls |
alot of guys i rode with pushed the limit everytime. i asked the same question as to why must you redline top gear on the straights everytime. we have a dragstrip 40 mins from my base. i get the same response from them all. "you can do top speed in 1/8th of a mile". they just don't understand or have that track mentality of out dueling the other for a few seconds. the air force too makes it mandatory to attend the msf course(for free) at least in florida and we all had a commanders interview too. plus monthly meetings to brief new laws and quarterly safety rides(which in a previous post i mentioned didn't always go so well). it just like dui briefings. people become numb to safety messages and zone out or say to themselves, it'll never happen to me. we started calling it the "war complex". these kids spend anywhere from 4-16 months in the desert come out unharmed and think they are invincible. | ||
| Glitch |
How sad is that? Would you rather it be the other way around?  | ||
| Tom_b |
There was a similar problem after WW2. That was the period when most of the outlaw M/C gangs in the U.S were formed. Also being a vet and a rider. MSF courses were mandatory in the USN back in the early 80's. Also mandatory orange vest on some bases started in the early 90's. Didn't do a lot of good then either. |
