| Author | Message | ||
     Oddball |
 Pic entitled "Ben Bostrum explains how fast the Buell is to his crewchief" | ||
| Xb9 |
3:30, here we go.... | ||
| Thesmaz |
Aren't the 1125's restricted in the amount of hp they are allowed to produced? I thought I remembered reading something about that last year. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...so what! Oh yeah, I ride a Uly too!! I just happen to like to read EVERY section on this forum. | ||
| Clarkjw |
LOL! Nice post Odd. Sorry for the misdirected nasty. I often think the fanboism of the site gets crazy. Why aren't we holding Buell to it's highest standard when it comes to performance? If you put a bike out at that 12k price range, you shouldn't expect 8k worth of bike. People negative responses to the SportRider review of the 2008 1125r. If they hadn't been so critical, would Buell really have stepped up? Imagine how much more roasted highway ranges leg woulda been! | ||
| Xb984r |
"Wow! When a factory rider is interested in seeing what a privateer Buell is doing, that's OUTSTANDING!! " Privateer, if you think this Buell effort is like you and me loading up the trailer and heading to the track, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.This "PRIVATEER" stuff is getting old, in no way shape or form are they full on factory,but lets get real. "If he DOESN'T win, then people are going to assume the bike REALLY sucks. If he DOES win, people will say "well what do you expect running an 1100 against 600s??" Exactly the way I see it. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Here we go with the static displacement argument without ever discussing the dynamic values. Blake, I'll line them up and you can knock them down -- welcome  | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
I really don't know much about this, but doesn't the sanctioning body make the classes up, and then you run in whatever class you fit in with your rig? Not the manufacturers fault, right? Pardon the ignorance. R | ||
| Jaimec |
BD: I would buy the reason the 1350cc XBRR ran with the 600s. Old, air-cooled technology, two-valve, pushrod engine, blah-blah, woof-woof, ad nauseum. But the Helicon is a BRAND NEW, MODERN design! Putting it in the same class as the 600s is an outright insult and slap to the face! Spin it all you want... on the street what people are going to see is Buell's modern 1125 engine is "only good enough to compete against 600s." They can't win this way!! As I said earlier: If they win, people say "Jesus, of COURSE it won... it's nearly twice the displacement of the competition!" If they lose, then people will say "God, those bikes SUCK! Can't even beat a 600!!" You Kool-Aid drinkers can argue thermal efficiency, reciprocating mass, etc. till you're blue in the face. The fact is, THAT is what "Johnny Wants To Buy A Bike" will see and think on Monday morning. Buell doesn't NEED to sell to the Kool Aid drinkers. What Buell NEEDS are MORE Kool Aid drinkers. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
 Oh, Yeah!!! R | ||
| P_squared |
I'd agree that it's a 'no win' situation for SOME, specifically the spec-sheet racers. I'd also argue that if they do good, which it looks like they have a chance to, it just might actually help their sales, as some folks won't care about displacement. I've already pointed out why, IMO, it would be VERY unwise to run a full effort in the Superbike class, and it appears that Mr. Higbee's results validate it. A lap down & 25th place doesn't sell bikes to a majority of the public on a virtually STOCK bike. I think most here would agree that Shawn isn't a slouch by any stretch of the imagination, just that he was outgunned in this race. So instead of griping about it so much about how it 'looks' to have an 1125 competing against 600's, why not enjoy it for what it is? A stepping stone along a path that we all hope eventually leads to competing in Superbike (AMA & WSBK - A guy can dream, can't he?) | ||
| Xb984r |
"Here we go with the static displacement argument without ever discussing the dynamic values. Blake, I'll line them up and you can knock them down -- welcome : )" Why isn't the Ducati 1098 eligible then.Like Jaimec said,we heard this argument for the XBRR, nice try though. | ||
| P_squared |
Which team(s) asked to have a STOCK 1098 or 1098S (Not an R, not an 1198 S) to be eligible? I've only seen 1098R's. Apples & oranges IMO. | ||
| Xb984r |
"Which team(s) asked to have a STOCK 1098 or 1098S (Not an R, not an 1198 S) to be eligible? I've only seen 1098R's. Apples & oranges IMO." When did teams get to start asking for a bike to be eligible? | ||
| P_squared |
When did teams get to start asking for a bike to be eligible? So no team did? Or are you referring to the Manufacturers? Why would Ducati ask when they've got the 848 there? Why would I open the class to a bike no one would race? Apples & oranges. | ||
| Oddball |
Horsepower is limiting factor is it not? I thought talk of like 148 when they were creating these classes. | ||
| Xb984r |
P-Squared, you are very confusing. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Spin it all you want... on the street what people are going to see is Buell's modern 1125 engine is "only good enough to compete against 600s." I'm not sure I've ever heard simple math referred to as spin, but we'll call it whatever you like. If the 1125 was putting x2 the value of the 600's it wouldn't be in the same class. I really did know better than to interject logic -- my bad. (Message edited by bigdaddy on March 05, 2009) | ||
| P_squared |
It is in GT-1 & GT-2 (formerly Moto-ST) I believe, but I don't see it in Sportbike, Superbike or Supersport. I only see minimum weight by engine type in the rules: 3.2 Weight a. Minimum weight: Inline 4 cylinders 365lbs. 3 cylinders 375 lbs. 2 cylinders 385lbs. b. Compliance with the minimum weight will be determined by weighing the machine in the exact condition in which the machine finishes any competition activity (qualifying or race) without the addition of fluids or other items of any kind. | ||
| P_squared |
Xb984r, not trying to confuse anyone. I just don't get the proposed argument of putting a 1098 in Sportbike. No teams asked for it. No manufacturer asked for it. The manufacturer already has an approved bike, 848, in the class. So, using the argument of, "There's no 1098 in Sportbike, but there is in Superbike. Therefore, the 1125R should be raced only in Superbike." is a dubious argument at best. If there were STOCK 1098's and/or 1098S' being ran in Superbike class, then I'd say the argument has some validity. There isn't though. A 1098R is not directly comparable to a STOCK 1125R, or even an 1125R running a race exhaust & ECM. Trying to make that comparison is comparing apples & oranges. | ||
| Clarkjw |
P_the point is Buell doesn't have an excuse for not being competitive (other than lack of funds). | ||
| Fresnobuell |
IMO, the 1125r is a rather unique bike in that it's right in the middle of the spectrum when it comes to racing. Not quite there to run with the Superbikes and a bit too much for the 600s. The AMA obviously allowed the Buell to run in a class where it could be successful and gain exposure. This should allow for more Buells to be sold, more money for the racing program and more interest to the sport in general. I don't see what's wrong with that. I suppose that the regular 1098 would be in the same class as the Buell 1125r. However, the 1098r (at $40,000 mind you) has Superbike power numbers and is appropriately running with the Superbikes. With the homologation rules, it puts the 1125r at a disadvantage due to its street-first, track-second design. Ducati has the reverse formula. Ducati also has immense funding for its race program, as well as decades of racing experience. It should be no surprise that Ducati does so well on the racing front. Give BMC a few years. The 1125r is not even a year and a half old and look at what has happened. Considering that this is Buell's first stab at so many new technologies on the 1125r, it's pretty amazing. | ||
| P_squared |
the point is Buell doesn't have an excuse for not being competitive (other than lack of funds). You mean of course not being competitive in Superbike I assume? Based on the work that's been done to this point & that the general public know about, we're looking at ~150HP without some more MAJOR development. That makes this bike semi-competitive in classes that are HP and/or Weight restricted, such as Canadian Superbike, which it was still down ~30+HP against the other bikes running. We know the bike is competitive on short/technical tracks, ala Shawn @ Willow and Crevier in Canada. Last I looked, Daytona isn't a 'short' track. So instead of griping about it all, put it all into context of where the 1125R stands RIGHT NOW, and you realize it's probably not a good idea to put all of your efforts into running Superbike this year. Sportbike, they have a VERY good chance for good things. I can be happy for that, can't I? And still retain hope that when they're READY, they will challenge in Superbike? What's the sense in challenging a class that you don't think you have a chance of winning? | ||
| Xb9 |
While you guys are arguing Danny's .009 off the pole 2nd Fastest | ||
| Davegess |
.112 off Bostrom's time for superpole. Way to go! | ||
| Davegess |
Second, pretty damn good even though Mr Adams seems to need to take a little shot at it. Can't wait until tomorrow. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I think it's very ironic that some Buell owners (some would even call them Buell fans?) have such negativity towards what it going on in Daytona. This is awesome. Period. This is great exposure for the brand, which will only make the Buell product better. | ||
| Reepicheep |
What, he's interrupting our ignorance with an actual qualifying run? Doesn't he know what racing is about?  | ||
| Paint_shaker |
"Should a liquid cooled vtwin rated 146 at the crank, stock be dicing it up with 600cc bikes?" According to the AMA it should be. Maybe AMA racing isn't for you... "...the point is Buell doesn't have an excuse for not being competitive (other than lack of funds)." Hit the nail on the head there!! The other manufactures have or have had better funding and are much further along than Buell. IMO, I think it is neat what the race teams have done with a near stock Buell street bike. But that's my opinion... yours may vary. Edit to add; Proud Kool Aid drinker! (Message edited by Paint shaker on March 05, 2009) | ||
| Davegess |
Somebody needs to hangs Mr Adams upside down by his toes over a pit of vipers. He is simply just sick on the subject of Buells. Erik must have done something really nasty to the man back in the day... likely gave him an intelligent answer to a stupid question. | ||
| Ds_tiger |
Not to speak for Adams- but I think he thinks the AMA has been the chooch for H-D Inc since day one.. The modify gas tanks provision for FX class a couple of years ago meant that Buell could change the frame because it also was the fuel tanks, etc. A lot of mainstream racing folks thought that was a continuation of H-D Inc Lording over the rules. AKA H-D Flatrack/ AMA cuddliness for years upon years. Simple truth is, a lot of people (and judging by this thread- alot of Bad Web'rs) feel that the bike should be classed with the "Big boys" AKA- Ducati 1198- But they let Aprilia 1000's run in the class too, and they are no slouch in any terms Hmmm WTF?? |
