| Author |
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Rfischer
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 02:41 pm: | 
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I seem to recall that Britton offered to take on the VR1000 project, but was brushed off by H-D. Regrettable as Britton's prototype bike was what the VR could have become. A world beater.
Unfortunately, he died before his ideas could make it to production in either race or street form. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 03:49 pm: |
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Ummm the britton raced. |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 04:13 pm: |
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Yes, I think you're right - a one-off made it to the track for a season or so. Ran only in NZ and AU tho', didn't it?
Fast. |
Freezerburn
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 04:26 pm: |
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I saw the Britton raced by Gary Goodfellow up at the Westwood racetrack in the summer of '89 (just outside of Vancouver BC). It was insane. Crazy use of ceramics and such and what a sound. I still think the VR1000 is pretty sweet though. |
Freezerburn
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 04:27 pm: |
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Thinkl the Britton also set a speed record at Daytona that year? Yes/No? |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 04:31 pm: |
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>>>I seem to recall that Britton offered to take on the VR1000 project, but was brushed off by H-D. Regrettable as Britton's prototype bike was what the VR could have become. A world beater.
While Britten stories make great copy . . . . they are more legend than leg.
I'd suggest, and perhaps you have, that you read BOTH books about John Britten. The one that was written AND the one Felicity (hired by his family after they saw the first one) wrote.
Take kind of an average of the two and you'll be in the ball park.
Genius? No doubt.
World beater? No way. |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 04:59 pm: |
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He did race Daytona, I believe in the Battle of the Twins or some similar class.
The bike wheelied from corner to corner. |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 05:02 pm: |
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By 1990 Britten's privateer efforts were making racing history and in the Britten V1000's international racing debut at the USA Battle of Twins in Daytona, Florida, it finished third. He followed this up a year later with a second at the same race.
http://www.nzedge.com/heroes/britten.html |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 08:20 pm: |
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"I seem to remember that the chassis was world class"
Not really, the one they should have built would have been, the first one they built was pretty bad and the second one, while better, was likely not a world beater. I think Muzzy said it "they all handle great when they don't make enough horsepower" |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 09:03 pm: |
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I think Muzzy said it "they all handle great when they don't make enough horsepower"
That's classic! The VR must have handled magnificently. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 09:57 pm: |
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Not really, the one they should have built would have been
And . . . . therein . . . lies "the rest of the story". Simple case of taking what they SHOULD have done and tossing it as a result of over inflated egos. |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 08:11 am: |
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OK, duly amended then: "World-beater motor".
Interesting parallels with Erik...
Britton: motor genius.
Buell: chassis genius.
Both: unable to complete the package.
End Result: Erik finds H-D; John dies.
(Message edited by rfischer on February 11, 2009) |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:51 am: |
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>>>Erik finds H-D
Close
H-D called Erik. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:04 am: |
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The story I tell in the book is pretty dam close to the real story; it is perhaps a milder version of the truth as I see no need to toss folks "under the bus" or point fingers. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:06 am: |
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"Buell: chassis genius."
Not arguing that he is or isn't, but the VR1000 chassis was designed by Mike Eatough. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:58 am: |
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What role, if any did he actually have in the VR program? |
Svh
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 12:04 pm: |
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I think what people are saying is that HD had the ability to use some of Erik's designs on the VR1000 and chose not to. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 12:17 pm: |
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That's HD's loss. By '96-98, I'm sure EB was up to his pits in the XB design. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 01:00 pm: |
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The story in our book is the best source of Erik's role that has been printed to date. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 01:05 pm: |
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The first VR chassis was a Harris design, not counting the one Erik did that they turned down, and had issues. The final one was pretty good but was too conventional to solve the issues they had with air box size fuel tank requirements |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 02:01 pm: |
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Thats cool! So the little XB sitting in my garage was descended from a solution created in response to the problems getting the VR1000 to work (even if it didnt get used).
Thats a neat little bit of XB history right there! And it makes it arguably the most fruitful and successful aspect of the entire VR1000 program  |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 05:22 pm: |
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Actually, if you look at the VR1000 frame, it looks like it could be the grand daddy of the XB. Its not a tube and definately a boxed frame. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 07:39 pm: |
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Erik laid out the shaft locations on the VR engine, and exactly how it would package in a bike. The first design out of Harley tried to minimize shaft count and potential noise sources if they ever did a street version, and it was about 24 inches across the crank, and wouldn't have leaned much further than a Softail. He finished his chassis about 2 years before an engine capable of running on a track was released, and then the politics started. There was no way Harley engineering was going to use an Erik design. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 09:28 pm: |
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The XB is certainly an outgrowth of the VR frame that was not used. Part (perhaps all) of the reason for the fuel in frame was that it was impossible to put the package together in a conventional way. 500cc cylinders needed a very large airbox to fill properly. The Cosworth 2 liter 4 of that era was sporting a huge box if it 2as making serious power; and that engine won a lot of races.
You also need downdraft carbs with nice straight intake runners so yo need a big airbox right on top of the engine. Then you need to move the rider as far forward as possible to keep the needed weight on the front wheel. If you optimize those two things you have no place for the gas tank. The design H-D compromised on reduced the airbox size and thus power and moved the ride backwards and messed up the weight.
The book has a pretty lengthy bit all about it and I am not typing it in here but that is the gist of it.
You XB uses the same idea and the 1125 is the design taken forward 20 years and optimized for the street. |
Mbsween
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:29 pm: |
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Not to beat the Britten thing to death, but it certainly was one cool bike. There's a film here that features the man himself and the techniques he and his group of friends (some of them anyways) use to make the bike.
The movie is heavy on Kiwi spirit, but it is very interesting to watch. Plus they let you see the whole thing, albiet at pretty low res. I'd love to hear one of those bikes in person
He did race several times at Daytona and at Phillip Island and a bunch of other tracks local to NZ. An amazing effort all in all imho.
Court has it right, you need to read the books if you want the story (unless you were fortunate enough to be there)
(Message edited by mbsween on February 11, 2009) |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 01:16 am: |
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I think DG and Court should write a book about the VR1000 program. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 05:58 am: |
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Dave's write up of the story of the vr1000 is on pages 120-121 of 25 years of Buell for
those interested in finding it. (see, I is litterit!) |
