| Author |
Message |
    
Bdutro
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 08:37 am: | 
|
"Sorry, I'm not living up to some standard of some Buell owners, but being an engineer for a living gives me some amount of understanding on things like thermodynamics, air flow, loads and such.
And my original heating of the oil statement stands to you non-belivers."
Don't identify yourself as an Engineer if you're going to continue to be an utter buffoon. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 06:16 pm: |
|
You realize that "Air Flow" is "Fluid Dynamics" right?
Really though... Just put a better oil cooler on it. At least that'll make the fans run... maybe... what... 1% less?
Try putting some heat shielding on the bottom of the engine and see if that helps first... Just as a test. I'd hate to see someone waste a bunch of energy on something that won't have any effect. |
Misterrich
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 07:40 pm: |
|
I wrapped my exhaust in header tape and then switched to engine ice. Dropped the temps way down. Runs 20degrees cooler now. |
Xb9
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 07:42 pm: |
|
Where's the heat being generated? Getting the combustion temperature down to a decent level with an acceptable air/fuel ratio makes a HUGE difference, among many other benefits.  |
Redscuell
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 08:17 pm: |
|
Maybe we should let some facts get in the way of the schadenfreud of imaginary coking:
Nobody on the street fears coking more than turbo owners; and here are some excerpts from one of the two 'bibles' of turbocharging:
"For street engines . . . synthetics can operate to about 40 degrees F higher (270F versus 230F for mineral based)." Maximum Boost, C. Bell, 1997, Bentley Publishers: pp. 42
We know from the owner's manual that the Rotax is supplied with synthetic oil, so that sets the upper limits of our engines to 270F oil temp.
"The presence of a good oil cooler can easily drop the water temperature by 15 degrees [F]." Ibid, pp. 43
I think that, unless someone on this Board has fitted an oil temp gauge that indicates that the Rotax is operating with oil temps at or near 270F, then we have nothing to fear from oil degradation.
The water temps posted earlier in this thread suggest that we aren't operating near this limit, in part because we have that "good oil cooler".
And if excessive heat is not coming from inside the engine, where exhaust gas temps can approach 1300F (Turbochargers, H. McInnes, 1984, HP Books, pp. 50), then I doubt it's happening outside the engine from the muffler (which after all is a hollow heat shield surrounding an exhaust pipe, with air rushing past it that can be at sub-zero C). |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 12:21 am: |
|
What is it with engineers believing that THEY are the one guy with the answer that legions of better trained, better skilled engineers overlooked or were too stupid to figure out? |
Buellborn
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 01:12 am: |
|
Because nothing is perfect? |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 01:27 am: |
|
Sometimes nothing is broken. |
Dirty_john
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 03:07 am: |
|
Modern emission control has a tendancy to lead to borderline lean mixtures/hot running/poor throttle response.
Fuel injection systems overall perform an excellent job of providing a one stop solution but have limitations as to how far the average home mechanic can tinker with them without the relevant hardware/software etc
I am sure that if the regs weren't so tight on emissions we could all run with richer fuel/air mixtures which may help take the edge of excessive temperatures.
Don't personally see the coolant or oil temperatures as an issue to be honest.
In the good old days of carbs it was a lot easier to fiddle |
Diablo1
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 03:08 am: |
|
What is it with engineers believing that THEY are the one guy with the answer that legions of better trained, better skilled engineers overlooked or were too stupid to figure out?
And four flashes later shows who has the skilled engineers.} |
Dirty_john
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 03:12 am: |
|
Need not necessarily be the engrs fault if there are commercial pressures to get the product on the market - there are far too many examples of products released to market before being finally developed.
However this is why I waited for the 1125R to have been on the market for 18 months before buying mine - there are still minor issues which should have been sorted by now. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 01:47 pm: |
|
Agree completely DJ.
The issue is when ONE engineer comes running in and saying that the design is all wrong and that they are going to gut the design and run laker pipes out the back of a motorcycle based upon a back of the napkin analysis.
There are ALWAYS engineering design trade-offs. Optimal may not be financially, aesthetically, or mechanically practical.
The fuel maps are a prime example of where marketing and financial took precedence over the engineering process. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 03:48 pm: |
|
Fuel maps are mostly hampered by the EPA. |
Buelltech6
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 07:29 pm: |
|
ft bstrd. couldn't have said it better my self. |
Buellborn
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 10:28 pm: |
|
Ft_bstrd
Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 01:47 pm:
........
The fuel maps are a prime example of where marketing and financial took precedence over the engineering process.
Thats what makes it so frustrating, short term greed won out over care for the consumer or the brand's long term reputation.
|
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 11:22 pm: |
|
Thats what makes it so frustrating, short term greed won out over care for the consumer or the brand's long term reputation.
I don't believe it to be greed so much as a looming deadline for delivery of a product.
EVERY first year product has the exact same problems. There is ALWAYS a degree of beta test done by the general public on brand new, clean slate models.
It's just part of the process. If they tested every single variable in every single environment the bike would have been delayed another three years and there would still be bugs in it.
Name anything that isn't mass produced that is 100% perfect the first time.
Name anything that is mass produced that doesn't have an anomalous failed unit from time to time.
I don't blame marketing and financial. I sure as hell don't blame "greed". Producing a product that has problems is counter to the purposes of "greed". It diminishes the potential for sales and revenue. Were there no issues with the 1125R, would dealers be selling them fro $8-9,000 new?
They have to mark them down to move them off the floor because of the problems they have had. This doesn't jive with "greed". |
Buellborn
| | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 11:52 pm: |
|
YOu are far more articulate than I. Greed was the wrong word.
You could call it ambition as I'm sure they wanted the new bike for the 25th anniversary. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 01:23 am: |
|
I believe everyone wants to do well. I believe that they ran out of time with the fuel mapping.
What I think is genius is when they used riders at the inside track events to provide additional test data for the bikes.
I believe that the map would have been even further off had they not gotten the data at the test rides.
What you have to look at is how quickly the issues were dealt with from year to year. |
