| Author | Message | ||
     Dynarider |
The EPA standards are going to force their hand on that front. Now you are gonna get Blakes feathers all ruffled up over that one. Lets clarify that its going to be the noise emmisions thats gonna force em. | ||
| Daves |
Well Dyna, you are right, I guess by about 8 hours. Dave | ||
| Bads1 |
Dyna the damn xb's sound quieter then the cruisers.And not till 08 | ||
| Court |
>>>All I meant by change with the times was introduce different technologies Take a look at the CURRENT Buells, the ones you can WALK IN AND BUY . . . and tell me what you see? See an amazing similarly to a host of futuristic engineering breakthroughs that others are displaying, promising that as soon as they are feasible we'll be able to buy them? The CURRENT, available at a dealer near you, Buell is an amazing display of state of the art engineering moved from the hypothetical to obtainable. Many, in fact MOST, manufacturers offer marvelous technology. Few compete with Buell in terms of the raw ability to actually be the first to move it from the board to the road. I like this...I think, as you say, we agree. I'll repeat one of my favorites....""since Sears stopped making the Allstate we have been denied a "bad" motorcycle". The rising tide has taken all boats...Buell plays second fiddle to no one in terms of technical innovation and I predict there may be more in that aging 52 year old brain. Court | ||
| Metalstorm |
Court, I agree with all of that! So can we agree that what Erik needs to do is just do what he's always been doing? (And he does it oh so well doesn't he?)  | ||
| M1combat |
LOL, I don't even know why but this thread makes me giddy... I don't really even care what Erik does with the V-Rod engine if anything. I just have faith that whatever he does it will be exactly my style. | ||
| Sarodude |
Dyna- I don't mean to be a total jackass but how are you (or others who've seen 'em) certain that the Buells you see running about town are Revo powered? Is it possible that you're looking at some other water cooled motor or one mother of an oil cooler? Actually, the question of where this particular radiator is located springs to mind... Should your statements regarding Revo powered Buell mules be a tad more generic and open to possibility? I ask this stuff simply because I recall reading about some race oriented Porsches which (simplistically) used 911 motors (air cooled 2 valve motors) retrofitted with water cooled heads (and may have upped the valve count - can't remember). VW released a WaterBoxer motor with similar concepts on production Vanagons. Could it be a water cooled (or partially water cooled) XL / XB derivative? -Saro | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Saro people are looking at what IS known and extrapolating the next stage of things that could happen using Fuzzy Logic. It's know that Erik had some hand in the design of the Revo motor. It is also known that HD wants the Revo around as its next step up the evolutionary ladder of their engine design. It is known that EPA sound requirements in the future are going all but grind out aircooled engines because watercooled engines have the waterjacket for sound deadening as well as cooling. Buell uses HD based engines, one of which is the Revo. So it is safe to extrapolate that the Revo could have its place in a Buellized watercooled engine in a Buell product. | ||
| Pammy |
I don't claim to have read all the above controversy, but I will add a couple of comments anyway... I would not compare a Ducati to any bike reputed to be low maintenance, considering they(some) require a 7k mile valve adjustment and a cam belt replacement about or before the same time. Extremely good friends of Wes' that have been close to him in excess of 10 years still insist on spelling his name Wess. He feels neither slighted or put off in the least by this faux pas. And as such, he is polite and would never correct someone on such a trivial matter. Petty points, I know, but I am feeling very petty today. | ||
| Dynarider |
Saro, the motor didnt look anything like the present V-twin in the XB. It looked like a naked Revo motor. For the time being Buell uses HD powertrains...what other motor do they have thats water cooled? The bikes exist & now we even have anon trying to insinuate that Buell would hang radiators on mule bikes that arent water cooled. That would be stupid if you ask me, give people who dream of a water cooled bike some hope & then pull the rug out from under them. Look at this topic, everytime it comes up there are 2 sides. The folks who dream of such a bike & want to buy one, & then you have the naysayers who think its asinine & sacrilegious. Quite obviously nobody who actually knows whats in the plans is going to spill the beans, to do so would probably amount to sabotaging their own sales right now. Buell knows what the people want, HD knows what the people want, Both companies know what the EPA wants & it all leans towards a water cooled bike. Erik had a hand in the design of the V-rod & the first Buell was water cooled. Its obvious that Erik is certainly not "anti-water" cooled bike kinda guy. If its different, & badass he likes it. What could be more different & badass then the V-rod motor in an XB style bike? The motor is proven & it kicks ass...definetely no lack of hp. Dana, you keep on with the 08 stuff, the EPA can change their regulations at will. If they decided tomorrow that tougher standards would have to take effect by 06 or 07 then thats what it would be. besides that, 08 isnt very far off 04 cars & bikes are on the road. Look at the life span of the X1, 1999-2002. 4 years total. The XB's are now into their 2nd year. The way the bike market is, if you dont upgrade every couple years at least then you are left behind. Dont worry tho you will have plenty of company when Buell unleashes this new bike. All the XB owners can stand around & cry with the Shovelhead, Panhead, Knucklehead, etc owners, boo hooing how the company dropped their favorite bike & screwed em  | ||
| Dynarider |
I'll repeat one of my favorites....""since Sears stopped making the Allstate we have been denied a "bad" motorcycle". You forget the Yamaha Vision? Biggest pile of shit bike ever produced...seriously. I think they only made em for 2 years also. Thats about 3 years too many. | ||
| Metalstorm |
Yes but we can all agree..whatever Erik decides, it will be different & badass. Of course it will be. It's a Buell ain't it? I for one will not be crying cause I will have an XB12R long before such a thing happens. Though I really don't think (damn there I go making assumptions that I can't back up again) that they'll discontinue the XBs untill/unless they have to. I mean just look at it. Anyone who had a hand in its creation is one proud sob and rightfully so. It's not a cookie cutter appliance like the other companies. No sir. It's a real motorcycle built by real motorcycle enthusiasts. You think they'd abandon that by choice?!? Mind you, this is all in the what if catorgory. No sense putting the cart before the horse. Lets just kick back and see what unfolds over the next year or two. edited by metalstorm on December 31, 2003 edited by metalstorm on December 31, 2003 | ||
| Evil_twin |
Ok, Ok. I have to jump in here. When I bought my 9, there was only speculation of a 12. Rumors on the WWWeb about it all. I believed there would be no 12. I bought a 9. Two weeks after I purchased my 9, the 12 was released. I am more than completely happy with my 9. I was a little pissed that the salesman (who is a very reputable man) told me that he had no idea. I believe he was fibbing. All things aside, we can daydream of the day when a Revo powered 'fighter is to be released. I have to agree with Metalstorm. We really have no choice but to sit back and watch the madness unfold. P.S. To all of you people in warm climates.... I hate you. Sorry, that is just my PMS talking. Rich | ||
| Brucelee |
I guess I am naive on this but how the hell does making our air cooled motorcycle engines QUIETER make America a better place to live and why the FUCK is the EPA involved or why do they care. Do they have all their other more serious issues licked or are they just pissing on guys who have no political standing? Sorry for the profanity but what a bunch of guys with heads right up their asses! For me, I hope both bikes get made. Evolve the current engine AND make a really cool version with a VROD mill. How bad could that future be?? | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Sound Pollution is one of the EPA's areas of coverage. Intake sound, engine/mechanical noise and exhaust noise. Big airboxes help to quiet the intake noise, which can get rather loud with bigger throats. Mechanical noise is the clatter of the valvetrain, gear noises from the trans and such. These sounds are easily concealed with a water jacket since the liquid absorbs more the the sound then it transmits. Exhaust is well Exhaust. For the first two, the EPA does a give and take, the quieter you can make one the louder the other can be. So if you can quiet the intake you can get away with more mechanical sound so you get a huge airbox for an aircooled engine. If you can quiet the mechanical sounds it leaves you more room for intake tuning so you can add a factory ramair since they are a little noisier. Or atleast that is the gist of what was discussed in the first week of theory when I asked that same question | ||
| Dynarider |
Bruce, I agree. The noise deal is a crock of shit. Noise pollution my ass, its not like once you turn the bike off the noise is still there. Hell I have a place of business 2 blocks from my house & they have a couple of big fork trucks with those annoying beep-beep-beep back up alrams on them. Im not shitting you when I say they are so loud some days they keep me up..I work nights...I dont see the EPA going after them, or how about the city bus, or trains or semis, etc. Though I really don't think (damn there I go making assumptions that I can't back up again) that they'll discontinue the XBs untill/unless they have to. We thought the same thing with the tube frame bikes. Look how fast they dumped those. Announced the XB & that was that..no more tubers. Hell they even pulled the stuff off their website for the tube frames for quite awhile. I think they finally put a minimal amount back on just to shut up us up | ||
| Tripper |
Dyna, if you lived near Detroit we'd have Chevy coming out with all kinds of 5, 12, 13 and 16 cylinder Camaro's. Get a clue. Motor manufacturers and their engineers play with all kinds of shit, and yes, they drive them home sometimes. Few of them make it to the board of directors for a preview. Now what was anony saying about a 130 lb watercooled powerplant? Does that weight include the coolant and associated bits? Would Erik roll his own? Or license an Austrian design? Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm. | ||
| Metalstorm |
Damn you Dyna! just when I reach a state of blissfull ignorance, you come and yank me back out!  | ||
| Dynarider |
if you lived near Detroit we'd have Chevy coming out with all kinds of 5, 12, 13 and 16 cylinder Camaro's Nah, they quit making Camaros finally And I know all about the mule bikes, where I live we get to see a variety of..lets call em "different" bikes. These test riders will actually come to some of the local hotspots & ask us what we think of certain bikes, features, stuff like that. These often times are bikes that arent seen in a dealership for 2-3-4 years. HD has their own little private "test track" with a rather shoddy fence around it. Ask Mikej about some of the bikes he has seen sometime. Simply put 2 & 2 together. Its known Buell will obviously be making different models of bikes eventually, its known the V-rod motor is available & will & has been fitted, its known that Erik doenst "hate" water cooled bikes, its known that the EPA is cracking down & its going to be getting a lot tougher to get these V-twins to pass..not impossible but very very tough. A water cooled bike would ease that problem. And there is a 5 cylinder out right now..cant recall who is making them tho..Audi I think use to, but there is a brand new one. Or maybe its that odd V-5 honda...yes you read right a V-5.. Im thinking of. | ||
| Glitch |
I have also heard that the new Buell will be delivered with full synthetic oil. Would Erik roll his own? Don't you?  | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Audi and Volvo both have been making Inline 5's for years. The revs of a IL4 with the torque of an IL6...the V-5 is one I had heard rumours of, just like a rumour awhile back about Oval Piston honda motorcycles... | ||
| Dynarider |
I know about the inline 5 cylinders, I think my old 73 volvo had one. But I thought someone..audi, volvo, honda, had a v-5 for their cars this year. | ||
| Anonymous |
OH, yeah, BTW, that stupid illustration bike isn't coming out either, Rocket. | ||
| Xben9r |
Ok, why would this last post put any Anonymous' job in danger, or why would any of the anonymous' in this thread put any of their jobs in danger. I have lost all respect for the whole anonymous posting thing. I think if I were Erik Buell I'd be a little more worried about having little pukes like this working for me that didn't have the gut's to say no we're not working on that.... It's much more exciting than that. Oh wait I may lose my job for this post... can I post anonymously? | ||
| Bads1 |
The EPA doesn't and won't change there regs when they have already approved a manufactures product....fact.So what your saying is they will be forced to put the Revo motor in everything HD and BUELL makes??? And I won't cry when and if they drop the XB,I'll just buy a new one if I'm not happy with what I have anylonger.I just think that HD will use that particular motor for there own line up of bikes well before Buell uses it.Buell will most likely get something else just nobody knows what. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I think if I were Erik Buell I'd be a little more worried about having little pukes like this working for me that didn't have the gut's to say no we're not working on that.... Good. I admire your intention. It does, however, run counter with reality. I admire what you mean but it's a bit like me convincing the State Trooper that I possess requisite skill and my car is designed to run that speed.....rules are still rules. Anonymous posters (to the extent we can still keep up with it as the internet enter another free for all era) are given a chance to justify their need to post anonymously or risk being exposed. Buell employees MUST be bound to the same standards the military is with regard to confidentiality. Court | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Me thinks Anonymous "doth protest to much" That mayhaps his negative words are in fact the answers we are looking for  | ||
| Bads1 |
Happy New Year to ya Court | ||
| Elvis |
The original rumor is clearly not entirely true, and if it's not entirely true, it seems likely that there is little or not truth to it. If you look carefully at the wording of the post, it seems to imply that the engine will be an "option" with "assembly" added onto the MSRP. This would seem to imply that you would buy an XB12 and then have your dealer install a new engine. If they're going to offer the V-Rod engine, I find it very hard to believe that it wouldn't come from the factory as such. Several months ago there were rumors that Buell was working on a 1500 cc engine that would be sold as an aftermarket option (we would probably infer it would be done that way to get around regulations such as EPA noise restrictions on production bikes). There have also been rumors of V-Rod Buells ever since the V-Rod itself became a credible rumor. The logical explanation for the rumor that started this thread is that a dealer somewhere is reading these boards and combining these two general rumors into a single new rumor. No offense to the dealers out there, but they generally seem to be some of the least reliable sources when it comes to these things. There could be some shreds of truth in these rumors, but they're likely not worth the time everyone spends thinking about it. | ||
| Dynarider |
Me thinks Anonymous "doth protest to much" That mayhaps his negative words are in fact the answers we are looking for I like your line of thinking. Still wondering why the anonys never ever got involved in any of the numerous warranty issue topics |
