| Author | Message | ||
     Brucelee |
I have read mag articles and such that seem to indicate that the older Buells like the X1 and Cyclone were very very fast. I know they had the 1200CC and carbs but I believe were heavier. Question, were they faster than XB and if so, was the motor that much diff than what were currently have. In other words, did Buell make the XB slower and if so, why? Help me out here people. Thanks | ||
| Viros |
I had a 2001 X1 and I put 23k miles on it in a year just before I wrecked it. Ive had my 9R for 7 months and got 16K miles on it now. I have good experience with both and the plain and simple answer is the X1 was faster. As for a tuber' X1 vs a XB12, when I tested a xb12 the power felt almost equal with my old X1 with the scale leaning a little toward the xb12 since its lighter. The motors are different, and improved in many ways on the XB's, and even though I think my 9R is slower than my X1 I bet I would get a faster lap time at the track on the Bolt, since the handling is that much better. | ||
| Viros |
And In case anyones wondering I liked the X1 just a little more for its character and more low end torque. If I had it my way Id own an X1 for the street & Ducati(999) or Aprilla(RSV Mille) for the track. | ||
| Kaese |
I have a S2 with Thunderstorm heads, Lightning Ignition, Forcewinder Air Filter, Vance and Hines exhaust, and rejetted carb. I just wish I could fit that motor on my Bolt! It was much faster in torque and acceleration from 3K to 5K. The S2 had the Harley 1 inch grips also, so hanging on was the priority. The handling was less trustworthy. The S2 was a little out of control. Don’t get me wrong, the S2 did everything I asked of it, but the handling was downright scary. It felt so much so more top heavy. I thought the S2 was the most fun bike I had ever rode until I straddled the XB. The suspension was harder to adjust on the S2. I felt the brakes not up to par. Don’t quote me on the weight difference, but I believe it is only about 25lbs. The XB is a much more compact and maneuverable package. The engine, even though down about 220cc’s, revs so much faster. The S2 didn’t really perform above 5K RPM like it did from 3K to 5K RPM, it was a tad sluggish. I believe it was due to the flywheel being heavier and Buell has lightened it on the subsequent S3’s and the XB’s. On the XB I have the race ECM and the Drummer on the Bolt. There is another power and torque curve at about 5K RPM. It really scoots at that 5K-7K RPM and the redline is about 1K higher. In summary, get a XB, if you don’t already have one. Bigger Bang for the Buck! | ||
| Buckinfubba |
to me faster means all the way down the line. what I mean is yes the x1 may have accelerated quicker but then lost its shit where the xb9 keeps going. so yes the x1 is faster at first and then it gives way to the 9. everybody thought the 80"evo was faster than the twin cam when it came out. what they meant was it "felt" faster. vibrations and such can give you that feeling. This argument will go on for the ages. all I know is it can come down to who's shifting the gears and riding the bike. A buddy of mine who weighs 100lbs less than me and is a better rider than me has a millenium x1 with stage2 nallin heads, race pipe and ecm. we did a run starting at 20 mph and he took it out of the box but I caught up and past him at about 110 mph mind you it wasn't by much but the 9 did it. might have something to do with aerodynamics and such. there is so much more to speed than just hp. why does this argument keep happening...it boggles me | ||
| Brucelee |
I didnt mean to start an argument. Since I know spit about the old Buells, I thought I would ask. The older ones look mean in their own right and most sound like serious thunder. Back to the engine, was it fundamentally the same as what we have in the XB or entirley diff. technology and heritage?? | ||
| Brucelee |
BTW- I have a 9 and totally love it. Like those older ones too! | ||
| Davefl |
The engine in the tube frame bikes is more like the XB12 engine. The case and heads are different not sure but the cams may be different as well. I have demo rode the XB's but the 9 or 12 does not do the same thing for me as my M2 or S3. | ||
| Hootowl |
Never rode a 9, but I have taken a 12S for a spin. It didn't feel as strong in the low-mid as my X1, but it was bone stock, whereas my X1 has the full D&D set up and a race ECM. Sure was a lot smoother though. And quieter. I wasn't really getting on the 12 either, as it was not mine and only had a few hundred miles on it. Since the bore and stroke are the same (I think) and the XB heads are better than the Thunderstorms, I would imagine that with similar performance mods, the XB motor would outshine the XL based lump. Jeff | ||
| Boulderbiker |
I would imagine it would otherwise there would have been no point in Buell going through the trouble or redesigning it. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
the cams are way different. and sometime what feels fast is actually slower. smooth power is faster. I've got an analogy about sex here but i won't use it..... oh well what the hell..... she don't like pig power that goes away fast!!!! | ||
| Davefl |
Bubba Since you had to put it that way. If I had to chose between a woman who was smooth or one that was a little wild, made you do things in places that you really shouldn't do them in, and that excited me. I would go with the latter every time. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
I was talkin about what she wanted not us the male.....of course we want slam bam thank you mamn.... But then you get that rep and then it don't matter how fast you are...then you don't get to ride anything you want.... | ||
| Kcbill |
The power the older Buells made is really about the same as the 12's. The weight is down on the new 9's and 12's so your going to have a better power to weight ratio. Blake may jump in here with the math. I don't feel like looking it up and figuring it out right now. Really no point. The 96,97 S1's made about 74 at the rear tire with super trap and air breather mod and carb re jet. The 95 S2's made about 58 to 60. They were heavier than the S3's. The 98's made about 78 to 80 at the tire with the same modes. True cylinders would make 2 to 4 more pony's. That was an other thing I noticed was the cylinders quality was not always steller. So the current models are putting out close to the same numbers but weigh less. Ok I had to look it up. The 98S1 Weighted 465 lbs. dry. Information from Battle 2 Win volume1, issue 4. I think that is wrong because it says the S3 weighs 450 lbs. dry. My 98 S3 shop manual says the S3 weighs 450 dry, the S3T is 465lbs. I think the S1 is about 440. I don't have a manual to check it. I'm sure the archive will tell you or some one will pipe in with the info. I have owned a 96S 1, 98S 3, 97S3T. Buell has done a great job of dropping the weight and keeping the power about the same. I felt like they went backwards on the 9 for power after every body was used to the power of the 1203cc motors. But you have a motor that can rev higher and that could make up some of the difference like Bubba said. I have ridden the 9 and the 12 and I like the 12 better. As Bubba and others have said depending on where you live the 9 may be all you need for a lot of tight twisty's. Check back into the archives for more info if this isn't enough. Heck don't take my word for it. Hey Bubba don't be to hard on the new guys that haven't been around as long as we have. MERRY SANTA DAY. | ||
| Brucelee |
Am I wrong or did these older bikes run in the low 12s when stock? Or, is that wrong? I believe the XB9 runs 11.7 and XB12 runs 11.3 or so based on mag reviews I have read. | ||
| Kcbill |
brucelee in the real world they ran with a good rider mid to high 11's. Around here any way. | ||
| Kcbill |
98 S1 weighed 425lbs. | ||
| Jrh |
I just looked at an old motorcyclesonline test of the 1998 S1W.They turned 11.59@115 mph at the dragstrip(didn't mention if that was a "corrected" figure).Dynoed 88.5 rwhp and 76 ft-lbs,with full tank of gas(5.5 gal.)they weighted it at 460 lbs.Listed for $10,599.Cool bikes! | ||
| Jrh |
Something don't add up.At roughly 6 lb. per gal.that full S1W gastank holds about 33 lb.of gas,so,the S1 would weigh about 427 lb.without fuel.If you subtract a couple lb. for fork oil,3 lb. for engine-trans. oil,the S1W is lighter than the XB12R Sportrider showed weighing 439 dry,461 wet.  | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
wet weight from the service manuel is 460lbs. Lists fork oil at 14oz per leg...fuel at 3.7 gallons and oil at 2.5 quarts. Trans at 1 quart. | ||
| Brucelee |
A follow on question. Does anyone know why Buell came out with 983cc engine upon redesign? Did they have some idea that 1203 would end up being faster?? Again, not complaining, I love my 9. Just curious! | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I believe it was intended for the race circuit. Buell wanted the new buyers to have a chance at roadracing them. Since 1000cc seems to be the legal limit that they can have for a displacement well you can figure the rest. | ||
| S2pengy |
Also big difference on insurance.... Look at HD history the 883 Sporty came before the 1000cc, then the 1100cc and then the 1200cc... The public has been a test bed for HD since the beginning.... The Knucklehead was orginally 61 cu inch.... Their first V twin was a failure with an atomspheric intake valve... The first V model Flatty's had flywheel failures and cost HD a bundle... Early Big Twin swingarm frames cracked and broke.... Look at the S2 owners and what we found for Buell... At least they learn from the public and correct most mistakes... I have had alot of help with the problems I have had and feel they stood behind the product.... | ||
| Dynarider |
The X1 will top out at 139mph the XB9 is 132-133 tops. Not quite sure what the 12 does. JRH, the difference between dry & wet weight can be 30-40 lbs. They weigh the bikes with no fluids anywhere..& the battery is also removed. Dry weight is stupid & should never be listed because obviously the bike cannot be run dry. | ||
| Jrh |
Dyna,congrats on the new grandson! On the bikes weights,at least from the specs i found above, it seems that the S1 is actually lighter than the new aluminum frame version XB.That just doesn't seem likely or logical.Other than that one source,i haven't found where a magazine weighed an S1.Maybe my tube frame ain't the logwagon i thought it was. | ||
| Tripper |
S1W carries 5 gallons of gas. | ||
| Rocketman |
11.59@115 mph from a stock S1W? Even down hill with a back wind and a 110lb pro drag racer on board I'd doubt it. Man that's fast from a stocker. Rocket  | ||
| 1320 |
Having drag raced the 1203 motors for awhile..I think there is alot of potential in the XB motors for this application...But, there is a big drawback in not having the cassette transmission and having to split the cases for something as simple as a bent shift fork..Hal's racing has development cassette trannys in their racebikes so they hopefully are in the works for the future factory rides  | ||
| Jrh |
Rocket Yah,i know what you're saying,those are mighty impressive numbers.The 88.5 hp seems better than what's normal from what i've read on these sites too.They did'nt say who made that run in the article but Shawn Higbee was one of the testers.Then they had a girl who was Never on a dragstrip try it and on her 3rd run she turned a 12.44@109.Quick learner i guess.I dunno. | ||
| Fatpony |
My x1 with a d&d,race ecm,andk&n is a rocket, my xb9r is a bullet. Only way this fatassed 200lb Southern boy can describe it. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
1320...does that mean 6-speeds as well or just a 5-speed cassette? | ||
| Mikej |
I spoke with the shop down there about trap dooring an XB and was told the deal would have to go through channels for approval. Didn't pursue the deal any further. Anyone with a shop and a mill could probably come up with something if they had the knowledge/experience to do it right. I doubt the factory will offer this since they are now into cost reductions with the engine assembly. | ||
| Rocketman |
Well it's filed somewhere in the archives and I don't remember the exact time but Just Harleys did break into the 10's on their modified but stock capacity street S1. I always thought my own S1W fairly fast in the quarter. I've run a personal best of 11.75 if memory serves - not bad considering I weigh around 220lb and a faster time was posted by a 150lb rider 11.25. Let's not forget though, my S1W put down 100rwhp which is why I made the statement above. Rocket |
