| Author | Message | ||
     Joojoo |
Hi all, Excerpted from the September/October 2003 issue of FUELL™ Magazine. The founder and Chief Technical Officer of Buell Motorcycle Company talks about the new XB12 motorcycles ... and more. FUELL: Aren't air-cooled engines more susceptible to overheating? EB: Another myth. In fact, here's another really neat thing about air-cooled engines: A lot of wear and damage to motors is the result of damaged oil. And people just aren't as religious about changing their oil as they should be, by the way. Some of the worst damage to oil happens at hot soak. Basically, you're running an engine, you get it really hot, you're riding hard, and you stop. The engine sits, and the oil's no longer circulating. The oil, particularly what's sitting in the heads, which it always does, is just cooked. It's just saturating heat out of the heads and slowly breaking down. With a water-cooled engine, there's nothing you can do about that. Even if the fan goes on, you'll cool the radiators, but the water pump's not turning, so the water you're cooling is not going back to the engine. And the oil's not being cooled. On our bikes, you shut them off, and you hear people say, "How come the fan's running? It must be overheating!" No! The reason the fan's running is it's supposed to run! We know the temperature the heads need to be at to keep the oil at its best survival rate, so the fan will run until it gets it down to that temperature. Nobody else's engine does that. Nobody's. There's a lot of stuff like that people don't know, about why we picked these engines and why we think they're a good ... well, not a good choice, but a great choice. It's wonderful engine and there's a lot of technology in it. So all these people who are saying that air-cooled engines are doomed, and that the future is all water-cooled ... well, the nice way to say it is they're wrong. The fact of the matter is air-cooled engines are going strong, right into the next century. --------- Erik's final remark and serious push of the air cooled motor in this article leads me to believe that he plans to base the future of the XB on air cooled blocks. Thats cool. I wouldnt be surprised to find out however that the motor company will develop an entire new Buell line of bikes around a liquid cooled setup. These machines would probably be geared more for 0-200KM performance than for the torqued roll on (0-60,60-80etc) that the XB line capitalizes on. The new line would be geared at competing with the Japanese competition. XB's though, air cooled torque machines. Cheers! Jack | ||
| Buelluk |
I hope when he said you stop , he meant stopping the engine I would be very concerned if as soon as i stopped ..that is stopped moving , the oil stopped circulating...isn't that what the oil pump is for !!. | ||
| Bads1 |
The way I look at it is as long as the aircooled 1200 powerplant is made the Buell will be aircooled. | ||
| Boulderbiker |
I think one will come from them at some point, but it'll be when they can afford to add at least another model to their lineup. In that same article he admits that watercooled engines have their place and thats the track, and frankly I agree. For a street bike, the added simplicity is awesome. Anyway, since they've got the handling package down pat, I think when they can afford to have more of a lineup instead of each of their bikes trying to cover so many bases, I think they'll bring in a true race bike. Just my 2 cents | ||
| M1combat |
Damn, that's one month before my first issue, I was going to read the entire article... From that excerpt it sounds like Bads1 is mostly right, but... I don't see why Buell couldn't/wouldn't introduce a new line. How long have the XB's been out? 4 years?? I would ask "What ELSE did he say?", but that would hijack the thread. | ||
| Bads1 |
M1combat 2 years is all. | ||
| M1combat |
Oh, I coulda sworn there was an '01 Firebolt... Maybe I am remembering prototype shots or something. I think Buell would rather sit back and let Harley prove the design of the V-Rod engine by pushing cruisers around the country for a couple years. After that they'll put one into whatever frame the design teams come up with after learning whatever they learn from the XB frame. | ||
| Hardluckxb |
Firebolt came to life in '02 | ||
| Darthane |
And became an '03 model year bike, the bastards. But that's a different story. Who cares if they do make a liquid-cooled bike later on? I love my simple, dinosaur air-cooled v-twin. That it performs as well as it does is a testament to the engineering prowess involved at Buell. That we continually want more doesn't say bad things for the engine, but speaks more towards the average Bueller's tinkering mentality. Bryan | ||
| Fullpower |
how about a stroker version of the vrod engine? run the stroke out half an inch or so, give it some cooling fins, get rid of that dumb looking radiator. this should lighten the bike by around 90 pounds, and give it much needed torque below 5000 rpm. plus it would have a more trditional hot rod look..............dean | ||
| Rocketman |
Jeez that's clever putting a fan switch in the head. If it's that necessary to cool the heads so the oil doesn't breakdown with heat soak I'd be more impressed if an electric pump was utilized from a temp switch - pumping oil from the swing arm direct to the heads - then gravity pushing the oil back to the arm via a simple non return valve located at the bottom of the crankcase - now that would be clever. But hey that's obviously not needed - Erik's got it covered (cooled?) Rocket  | ||
| M1combat |
LOL... I would venture to say this way works nearly as well and is lighter, less complex and less expensive to produce... All prime qualities IMO... Thank you, drive through... | ||
| Blake |
Rocket your idea sounds more like something the Japanese would do. Why continue to circulate the oil when all that is needed is to keep the heads from overheating the oil that is already there. You'd rather add a separate motor driven oil pump and circulation system? Keep it simple stupid. | ||
| Rocketman |
Keep it simple stupid. Ok boss! Oh but wait a minute Blake. Is the XB simple compared to your M2? You listening Mr Buell? Blake sez - KEEP IT SIMPLE - so non of this oil cooking temp sensing fan spinning stuff, ok! Rocket | ||
| Skully |
Fullpower- Stroking an engine is not a magical way to generate more torque. Cubic inches are. You generate the same amount of torque whether you bore an engine or stroke it. Increase the size any way you want to and the power will typically increase. Keith | ||
| M1combat |
Well, I think there's a relationship to stroking vs. boring in the resultant power curve. "You listening Mr Buell? Blake sez - KEEP IT SIMPLE - so non of this oil cooking temp sensing fan spinning stuff, ok! " LOL again... Progress is good, but keep IT simple. | ||
| Blake |
They added a fan, the temp sensor was already there on the late model tube framers. They got rid of a separate fuel tank and a separate oil tank. So... add one, subtract two... Yes Rocket, the XB's apparently are simpler. | ||
| Needforspeed2 |
I'd like to see double overhead cams. Keep the air cooling, but I need more revs. The last couple of track days I've done, I've been bouncing off the rev limiter too often. 10,000 rpm would be easier to live with IMHO. | ||
| Henrik |
Needfor ... in line with keeping it simple - shift a bit earlier??  Henrik edited by Henrik on December 09, 2003 | ||
| Nevco1 |
KISS philosophy applied to Liquid Cooled Buell... Ride in the Rain!!! | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
ROFL! All I want is another 500-750 RPM for my 12...please SANTA! | ||
| Joojoo |
Wycked, Im getting my 12 very soon. Is the redline THAT annoying? Jack | ||
| M1combat |
In 850 miles I've hit it two times... Both in second and after 500 miles. Granted, I don't ride very hard and I would imagine it would only be a problem in second on a track, but I would get used to it. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I hit it often enough it drives me nuts. But as M1 said he doesn't. I hit it in the first 3 gears sometimes but then I also tend to try and hit holes on freeway onramps at speed. I do have a tendancy to make the front wheel dance. | ||
| Joojoo |
ahhhhh, ok, I get the idea. Coming off a Wideglide, I dont think the redline will bother me that much. As well, if I wanted a high revving HP machine, I would have bought a different bike... So goes the day, Jack | ||
| Nevco1 |
Hey JooJoo...I have a 2003 WideGlide as well as the X1. Both are great!!! Two different machines but equal in many ways. | ||
| Joojoo |
Sweet! Lucky guy to have a Wideglide AND a Buell!! Jack | ||
| Nevco1 |
Lucky is one thing. The hard part is deciding which one to take out for the day. Usually end up riding two shifts just to make sure they don't get jealous in the stable. Now if Buell will just make a DP machine, I will really have a brain fart in the garage.  | ||
| Joojoo |
Hahahahahahaha! A Buell induced brain fart! | ||
| Nevco1 |
What can I say...I appear to be susceptible to HD/BMC Toys in my senior years. Funny thing is, I should really know better. Oh well, tis the price you pay if you want to play. |
