| Author | Message | ||
     Xl1200r |
Saint - how does it sound and run? I've thought more than once about strapping on some old HD mufflers, lol. | ||
| Saint |
Here is a shot of the complete bike (a CR before there was one):  Since the EFI seems to adjust to most any change, the bike runs well. The sound was truly fabulous - deep, rich, bass - best ridden with a half helmet as the booming will reverberate through a full face (my normal wear) knocking you senseless. The pipes were toned down a bit (a perforated core installed) - better for everyday use - but more of a baritone sound now. The stock headers remain untouched thanks to a manifold a friend made for me. | ||
| Tattoo72 |
Hey Saint. Your right around the corner from me. I'm in Blackstone,MA. Ever go riding with any of the  guys?? (Message edited by tattoo72 on September 23, 2008) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
now there is something to do with all those damn take off stock exhaust cones at the shop.... | ||
| Ustorque |
Saint get out and ride with us....we love wacky shit made by the rider! Tattoo...you missed a decent ride last sat up in NH but there will be more im sure. (Message edited by ustorque on September 23, 2008) | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I'm no engineer in the least bit. I do not understand flow, volume, diversion.....etc. It was just a little bit of the bench racer in me coming out after a few drinks." What you said here is very revealing. I'd rather work with someone who thinks about stuff in his off time and is cognizant of what he doesn't know rather than a 9-5'er who thinks he knows it all and doesn't have a clue about his limitations. | ||
| Nik |
a 9-5'er who thinks he knows it all and doesn't have a clue about his limitations. sounds like management material!  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Saint's exhaust is smokin hot. I'd love to hear an mp3 of it. What ecm are you using Saint? Any special mapping? | ||
| Tattoo72 |
It totally sucked missing that ride Shawn. This was my first year riding with the Nebo guys. I can't wait till next year! Nebo is a great group of guys. I made a lot of new friends and hope to make more as time goes on. I can see the group getting larger and more rides for next year. | ||
| Saint |
No special mapping, no performance chip - runs just fine & I'm in the 50 mpg range to boot  . Fast Fred on 146A did the manifold/exhaust work. I ride year round (except when salt & ice hits the streets) - don't hesitate to pull up & say hello as Signguy & his Uly friend did one day (great people  ). | ||
| Tattoo72 |
Here are a couple of mufflers that i've made. I'm currently running the imitation "drummer".       | ||
| Andymnelson |
Ok I'll bite. I've searched for 2 days and come up with nothing (I do kinda hate BadWebs search abilities...): What is Xopti's washer mod? | ||
| Tattoo72 |
http://www.buelletinboard.com/forums/showthread.ph p?t=7052 | ||
| Andymnelson |
Huh, thanks. Sounds janky. Anyone have dyno numbers on a Buell with the washer mod? | ||
| Tattoo72 |
It makes me laugh when all anybody wants to see is dyno numbers. Do you ride your bike on a dyno or do you ride it on the street? Do you ride it at wide open throttle all the time? I find drivability and how a bike runs on the street day in and day out more important than a chart or numbers. I'd rather have my bike be able to rev quicker, idle better, and run cooler than have a have a few hp extra shown on a dyno chart. To me a dyno is a good tool for final tuning. Or just having a piece of paper to show off to your buddies. I have access to a chassis dyno here at work and have yet to even think of putting my bike on it. Here is a vid of a bike we dynoed last year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpomxyNgqXY | ||
| Blake |
"I'd rather have my bike be able to rev quicker" That is exactly what an inertial dyno measures, how fast the engine revs up during acceleration. A dyno is to engine tuning what a stopwatch is to racing, a very objective way to quantify performance. You'll be hard pressed to find any top tuners these days who don't recognize the benefits of dynomometer testing. I don't know anyone here who fits the description of "all anybody wants to see is dyno numbers". The man simply asked to see some tangible evidence. Ridiculing him for that is totally uncool. | ||
| Tattoo72 |
I didn't mean to ridicule anyone. I just seems the minute someone post something on here. The first thing people ask is "got any dyno numbers?". Especially when it comes to exhausts. I totaly agree that a dyno is a very valuable to tuning. Especialy to someone who knows what they are doing. That person is not me  It seems a lot of buells react differently to similar mods. One person might dyno there bike with "xyz" muffler. Then another person with the same mods and "xyz" muffler dynos his bike. Yet they come up with different numbers and different graphs. I just find it hard to judge stuff based on a dyno run. For example look at the American Sport Bike exhaust shoot out. The Drummer wasn't the best. But yet there are a boat load of people who swear by their Drummer and would never own anything else. I had a Latus on my 9 and didn't think it performed well at all. Even though according to the shoot out it worked realy good on a 9. I sold it and went to a Jardine. My bike reacted way better to the Jardine. (Message edited by tattoo72 on September 24, 2008) | ||
| Andymnelson |
Your example of the Drummer is exactly why I would love to see if there are real gains involved with the washer mod- the Drummer is popular because it's maker is a stand up guy and the product looks and sounds good...not because of it's performance gains over other pipes. Owners THINK it performs better because the bike sounds like it does. I think that's likely the case here- drill holes and install a silly bolt and washer setup and wheeee...boy does it feel faster! I have my doubts... You may say that seat of the pants is the best way to judge, but I don't trust yer ass.  | ||
| Blake |
You do realize that the Drummer was originally designed and tested to work with stock or race ECMs, yes? The exhaust shootout also included special tuning to optimize performance for each muffler/exhaust system. To replicate that performance, you'd need the same tuning or at least the proper ECM mapping to go along with it, not to mention the airbox modifications too. One dyno compared to another can be misleading. But a before and after for the same bike on the same dyno run by a reputable operator provides a good idea of what the modifications involved get you in the way of performance. | ||
| Blake |
"not because of it's performance gains over other pipes." I dare say that you are mistaken. The Drummer offers excellent improvement over stock. | ||
| Lighting |
The washer trick all it does is that you can tune the back pressure and if anybody here have experience with a small displacement internal combustion engine, to wit, a Buell, knows that some back pressure is important. In the modern days look a variable vein turbochargers and exhaust waste gate. This technology been around since the P-51 Mustang back in the 40'S and in the late 60'S drag racing tracks, for the washer trick to work you must know the correct volumetric flow of your engine so you could be able to control the backpressure efficiently. I'm not an expert, but there are a bunch of them here,as a matter of fact I'm ignorant. | ||
| Andymnelson |
I dare say that you are mistaken. The Drummer offers excellent improvement over stock. Nah, i don't think I am. Please note (and properly quote me) that I was indicating why it is popular. I did not claim that it has not power gains, in fact I am sure it does. Regardless, not the point of my post or this thread...and i agree with you that a before and after on a dyno would be useful- that's all I was asking if anybody had with the "washer trick". | ||
| Tattoo72 |
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/exhaust.htm#dyn o_results | ||
| Andymnelson |
I read that page earlier- what does he have for a bike, and has anyone here actually tested their Buell similarly? Lost cause I spose... I'm out. | ||
| Blake |
Nope. You are mistaken. I can prove it. | ||
| Andymnelson |
Haha, you can prove why people like it? ooookaaayyy... Please note that I have twice now indicated that I believe it does give you power gains... but again, not the point of this thread OR my post. Don't get your undies all up in a bunch because you think that I have tried to offend your beloved Drummer- I have not tried to do any such thing (even tho in American Sport Bike's shootout it's high numbers were lower than all but the D&D, and less than 1 hp difference from the race pipe...not a good indicator I realize, but my point is that it's not a radical gain of some kind). I'm just saying that the look, sound and "feel" of a pipe on a bike is enough to trick your mind into thinking it is somehow faster- the placebo effect of "I made an upgrade" makes the average user think it is faster, even if it is not. Same thing with doing something like the washer mod- the guy who installs it will likely think it is faster somehow, but could be that it is not. Hence my inquiring as to whether anyone here has done this on a Buell and actually tested it's power gains. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I think the Drummer is the most "plug and play" of all the aftermarket options (just ahead of the Race pipe which needs the Race ECM to go with it), the owner is a great guy, and the fit and finish is tops. However, gains in power are only average according to the American Sport Bike shootout. It's up to the end user if they want a package like the drummer which is a bolt-on modification, or something like the Micron which gets better results, but requires more work. All other things being equal (besides plug-and-playability and power gains), I'd almost always want the easy pipe for the street. | ||
| Tattoo72 |
Ok. Well i'm back on my medication and feeling much better now.  Man do those happy pills work really good. I never meant for this post to turn out this way. I originally started this post in the hopes that maybe someone would chime in and say "hey cool ideas, but you might want to try doing this instead". I never thought that by adding the words "xopti mod" in my drawings it would stir up so a bee's nest. I never intended for these be put into production. This was not some marketing scheme. Especially after having gutted a couple of stock mufflers already. I can't even see how some these guys are making a decent profit from modifying stock mufflers. Most of the stuff I have built has never really been tested. I built my own front,rear,and tail sliders. I hope I never have to test them out the hard way to see if they actually work. I'm not about to go put my bike on it's side just so I can prove they work. How many right side scoops have been sold. Yet no one has ever wind tunnel tested them to see if they work any better than stock. They are what they are, and yet a ton of them have been sold. Hell i'd buy one right now if the economy didn't suck and money wasn't so tight. So instead I think i'm gonna try and make my own version of one this winter. I'll have plenty of time due to these sucky new england winters. I think it would be awesome if some other members posted some of their ideas here. Obviously we would keep it civilized and act like the grown man & women that we are. We could start a little bench racing session right here. I'm sure i'm not the only one who has ever sat around thought about building something for their Buell. I personally get great satisfaction from saying "yeah I built that" when someone asks. And if someone asks me if I could explain to them how it's done, so they can do it on their own, I do. It's all part of the Buell brotherhood. I'm not trying to take away anything from our sponsors here either. Because there have been quiet a few things that I have bought from them. I'm just saying to post what you would do if you had a few stock mufflers laying around and wanted to mod them. Like the credit card commercial says "what's in your wallet?". I think we could change it to "what's in your muffler?". Maybe we could even start a "hey look what built" thread. I'd like to say a sorry to anyone here that I pissed off or aggravated. Jim G. | ||
| Ducxl |
That's funny...I thought YOU were the one being attacked..Been a fun read.Keep up the FUN work Jim  | ||
| Andymnelson |
haha, no one is being attacked :-p No offense meant here either- just trying to ask some simple questions that some took the wrong way apparently- not sure how you could unless you were trying to be offended... I like your ideas and the fact that you are thinking outside the pipe! Some day I will make a pipe using something like this:  but with a couple of turn downs aimed down and out. I want to fab a front header connector, weld it all up and polish her nice and pretty. I think that something like this with the tips turned out would look sweet:  And I would think that if you bought one with the right inner diameter pipe and packing you would have the appropriate back pressure, and a great sound. Heck , these pipes are cheap enough, that I may just do it up this winter and see how she turns out! |
