| Author | Message | ||
     Spacecapsule1 |
with all the info i've been reading about HID's and polly heaters and the debates about wiring, relays, crimp, solder, what connections to use, euro sec, u.s. spec, I don't know where to start! So i decided to just let you know what I want to do in the hopes you could help me select all the bits and pieces i need to begin my project..... Here's what I want to do: my ride is an 08 TT I want to install polly heaters and wire them up with the stock buell heated switch gear. I want everything wired up so it can be easily removed if need be using deutch? connectors if possible... with the polly's, can i build a connector that will use the existing heated grip connection that the 08's have? I also want HID lighting. Is it possible to have 2 low beams and 2 high beams? I've read something about that but nothing very concrete. There's so much debate about this HID stuff right now, i'll just stick with powering the lights independent of the stock harness to avoid possible trouble. What do I need to do that? I've seen pics of various harnesses but don't know what is what.... help. so i'll need: the heated switch gear polly heaters HID kit - i know thats up to me, but i've read so much about auxillary harnesses i don't know what to get. braided wire loom wire - what guage? fused wiring? relays? what exactly do the relays do? i've read some posts about not using scotch wire taps. why? do i need those? how about the deutsch connectors, where can i find those and the pieces i need? thanks for helping me plan this out! | ||
| Lovecars |
I have some electronics experience here... I have HID's on my 05 XB12s, they are H7's which are only one filament. About the best mod I have ever done to my bike. I mounted the ballasts above the headlights, I took out the horn to make room for them. I then mounted new horns outside below the front signals. You don't need any special wiring for HID's they draw very little current, like a 35w bulb which is less than the factory halogens. Now as far as harnesses, the wiring thickness depends on what you are hooking up and what draw you are pulling. Look at the heaters and see what they draw. My guess is use 16 gauge wiring and use a 10 amp fuse in-line. Now for your answer about scotch wire taps.... they depend on what you are going to use them, if you are pulling lots of current through them it's not a good idea. If you just use them to trigger a relay or for low current they are OK to use; one big problem with scotch wire taps is that 1. they weaken the wire you tap into because you cut or crimp into it, 2. they cut the insulation thereby exposing the wiring, 3. corrosion can creep in and eventually they will fail. 4. if you overheat them they will melt and expose the metal crimp. I use them in areas where they are not exposed to the elements, in motorcycles this is hard to find. But I've used them under the seat to tap into existing wiring to put in accessories. I do not hook up into factory wiring harnesses with scotch taps, it's better to strip them and solder onto them. I don't know where to find Deuscth connectors, I use packard bell's that I can get at Pep boys, but be aware that you will need a special tool to crimp into the connectors and the tool can set you back from $20 to $60USD. I use disconnectable taps like: insulated spades, or stud connectors like the ones that are used for the turn signals. male (exposed on the power side) should always be negative. Ernie.... | ||
| H2owerker |
"I also want HID lighting. Is it possible to have 2 low beams and 2 high beams? I've read something about that but nothing very concrete...What do I need to do that?" The answer to that depends on your willingness to have 4 lights on your bike. Or to spend some big $. The light pattern is determined by the reflector, and the bulbs placement within the reflector. Our Lightnings do not have the capacity to do this. The reflectors are different and therefor have a dedicated Low/High beam. You may be happy to know that the High Beam reflector can be replaced w/ a low beam and you can run both lights while not guaranteeing blindness to oncoming traffic. HID lights w/ 2 low beam reflectors should be sufficiently bright to negate your need for high beams while driving. Although you will lose the ability to flash (high beams) other drivers. There are HID bulbs on the market that move within the reflector to change the light pattern. I have no idea how these would/could work on our bikes. They are made for vehicles that have dual filament bulbs and reflectors designed specifically to facilitate the function of High/Low beams. You may or may be able to afford/desire Bi-Xenon projectors. I have searched and cannot find a readily available projector (Bi-Xenon) for our bikes. The Bi-Xenon projector uses a movable "cut-off" within the projector to allow the pattern to be alternated between Low/High. They are available on e-bay for $75-150 (approx) but will require a custom housing. So if you don't have deeep pockets, or mad fabrication skills this project is not for you. The search for information about this can be maddening. Unfortunately I don't have the time to search for/post any informative links this morning. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
Ok thanks. I would be just fine with 2 low beams with the same reflector for each bulb. I just didn't want 2 bulbs with different aim. I thought the reflector was a single unit and would have to be cut in half to make it 2 low beam reflectors.... | ||
| H2owerker |
I've never had my headlights apart to see what exactly is in there. I have seen posts around that refer to 2 low beam reflectors. Try searching "HID", "headlights", and "HID headlights". Then read anything informative. Be sure to start from the beginning of each thread though. Here's what a FireBolt reflector looks like. (Message edited by h2owerker on November 06, 2008) | ||
| H2owerker |
Fack! I should have looked at the model bike that reflector was for. Ours are one piece... | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
yep. thanks though. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
As one of the earlier HID up-graders here. I have to caution against dual HID, unless you are willing to spend the $ on a custom setup (search for "deathrays"). I have had my HID setup since early 2006. I have a large thread floating around here that explains my set up (including valuable info from Reep/FT_B and others) I do not know how you could run dual HID's without blinding on coming traffic. Even with a single HID headlight aim is very important. The only way to make it work with duals it to lower the beam in the extreme. Which would negate alot of the benefits of HID. Also dual HID sets up for 2 majors CONS: 1) The KISS method goes out the window. It is not unheard of HID kits failing. If you leave the high beam halogen you will always have a bulb that can easily be replaced for cheap, verses a custom HID bulb that has to be ordered. 2) Flash to pass. This is a big one for me. If you set up a dual light setup, you loose you flash to pass. HID's do not like to be flashed. It really strains the system. If I was to do my system over. I would continue to have HID on the lowbeam only, and then add auxiliary lighting for really dark country roads. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Bingo! Agreed 100% | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
I have a buddy with an 1125r running dual hid's for the low beams. It didn't seem so bright to me that's why I was considering running dual hid's in my TT. I also thought of using the euro spec housing because I read on here somewhere that it's easier on the eyes of oncoming traffic.... what do you think about that? okay for dual hid's with the euro-spec housing? you have a vaild point and i don't want to blind other drivers. I might not have mentioned wanting to use the euro-spec housing in my first post.... I also don't use the flash to pass, so that's not on my list of concerns at the moment. | ||
| Lovecars |
Corporatemonkey; The HID's from two years ago are a lot different than what's available now. The ballasts are now digital, which means that they will stand more abuse than the old analog, also they are tons quieter. Most 2006 HID's where not even close to being legal, they lacked a very important feature, the ability to focus correctly on the light fixture, which meant that the point of light was not in the same place as the halogens they replaced, because HID bulbs are longer, they focused most of the time to a huge angle which meant that they blinded all drivers unless you aimed them at the ground thereby defeating the purpose of HID's. Nowadays if you buy a good set of HID's you can be sure that the focus point will be correct, therefore if you replace a halogen with an HID you don't even have to re-aim your headlights. In the case of Buell XB's (what I have) you don't need dual filaments because the factory H7's are not dual filament. I installed two Hid's one for the low beam and the other for high beam. Flash to pass???? here in Southern California, you flash to pass someone you either get an idiot that will sit right there not paying attention, or you get a driver that experiences the deer look and freezes, or you get the one that shoots you as you go by. Flash to Pass is totally useless here. Besides... why even put on flash to pass on a bike, all you do is pass the person... As far as dual filament; the new digital HID's are able to mimic a two filament light if you so order it by lowering the wattage for regular lighting and raising it for high beam. In the older days (2 years ago) HID's used to have a metal shield that would flip when you hit the high beams, this was not a very good solution and I don't think they sold too many. Today's HID's since they are mainly built for automobiles, the aftermarket industry; mainly SEMA, has put lots of pressure on importers to import product that at least conforms somewhat to DOT laws. And very soon they will have to conform to DOT laws. Ernie www.lovecars.com | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
The HID's from two years ago are a lot different than what's available now. The ballasts are now digital, which means that they will stand more abuse than the old analog, also they are tons quieter. Actually there has been little improvement in automotive HID lighting. What has been improved is the size of the components. There are 3 types of HID ballasts only two of them are used for automotive applications. Magnetic - not used in automotive products Electronic - this is what the VAST majority of kits are. The best Philips ballasts are electronic with integrated ignitors Digital - true digital ballasts are fairly rare in lower voltage environments. They are mainly used for hydroponics (growing plants) at line voltage (120-240) pushing 400 watts or more. True digital does have a few control elements that make it attractive in high watt applications, mainly to do with energy use and heat. Most "Digital" HID kits on the market are actually electronic kits with integrated ballasts. These have been out for several years. As for the newer kit withstanding abuse, this is a misnomer. Some manufactures have increased the size of capacitors in an effort to offset voltage fluctuations. What has changed is the cost of the components. When I got my kit OEM Philips components were (are?) quite expensive. A lot of lower priced kits used McCullough ballasts that were pure junk. Those kits have since been rebranded to avoid the stigma. In the last 5 years I have seen the HID world go from 3 major component suppliers, to literally hundreds. Most of the stuff today comes from China, and it is average quality at best. Now that doesn't concern me when you take in the price reductions. You can find Chinese kits for sub $100. At that price you can afford to gamble on the quality. The better products using Philips components are still higher priced. But in all my years of working with HID I have rarely seen any issues with Philip's components. What really matters is who you buy it from. How they package the components is the most important issue. Most 2006 HID's where not even close to being legal, they lacked a very important feature, the ability to focus correctly on the light fixture, which meant that the point of light was not in the same place as the halogens they replaced, because HID bulbs are longer, they focused most of the time to a huge angle which meant that they blinded all drivers unless you aimed them at the ground thereby defeating the purpose of HID's. Nowadays if you buy a good set of HID's you can be sure that the focus point will be correct, therefore if you replace a halogen with an HID you don't even have to re-aim your headlights. The light pattern from an arc bulb is no where near the shape of a halogen filament bulb. That is why the DOT has specifically outlawed aftermarket HID kits without a DOT approved HID housing. Aftermarket HID suppliers attempt to "rebase" an HID bulb to a standard halogen socket (H7, 9004, etc...). They do with with varying success. The better attempts use laser alignment systems. This has been in practice since 2004. Aiming a headlight is still very necessary. And I stand by my statement that on an XBS a proper aim is nearly impossible with a dual HID set up (if they run together). As far as dual filament; the new digital HID's are able to mimic a two filament light if you so order it by lowering the wattage for regular lighting and raising it for high beam. In the older days (2 years ago) HID's used to have a metal shield that would flip when you hit the high beams, this was not a very good solution and I don't think they sold too many. Bi-xenon kits still use a magnetic shield to mimic a true dual filament halogen bulb. These systems have been improved and are becoming quite common in the aftermarket world. As for a bi-xenon kit that lowers the wattage. They do not exist. Xenon lamps work by using extremely high voltage to "ignite" a gas arc. Once the arc is lit, it uses minimal current to maintain that arc. Forcing more power to a arc lamp does not produce more light. It only disrupts the arc. Now halogen bulbs (or any filament light) you can introduce more wattage for increased output. Of course this leads to shortened life, and increased heat. Other bi-xenon kits either join two arc capsules together, or on xenon with a conjoined halogen bulb. I have never used these in person, but from a design standpoint they make way too many compromises. Today's HID's since they are mainly built for automobiles, the aftermarket industry; mainly SEMA, has put lots of pressure on importers to import product that at least conforms somewhat to DOT laws. And very soon they will have to conform to DOT laws. The DOT has outlawed any aftermarket HID headlight. They have even outlawed the manufacture of such kits. The europeans have done the exact same thing. Unless you are installing a full aftermarket DOT (or E reg) lighting system (new housing) it is not legal. Currently most online HID suppliers operate out of Canada. If you head over to the Federal DOT's website they have press releases on all the US based companies that have been fined, ordered to cease sales, or worse ordered to issue a recall to recover non-compliant head light kits. Flash to pass Anyone who doesn't believe the flash to pass feature is a safety item is deluding themselves. I travel fairly frequently at night. Sometimes in vary desolate areas. Having the ability to warn on coming traffic about a hazard (Deer, debris, headlights off, etc...) is important. | ||
| H2owerker |
Thanks CorporateMonkey. I think you really did a great job of explaining the differences in ballasts, bulb design, and legal issues. I've never understood how people can think that putting a light that is 3-4 times brighter into an antiquated reflector will not blind on-coming traffic. Even on cars where the reflector is much larger (and therefor more effective) they allow far to much light to stray from the intended pattern. |
