| Author | Message | ||
     Corporatemonkey |
I finally broke down an installed an HID lighting kit. I have had one too many close calls with pot holes I couldn't see. I ordered a 4300k lighting kit. 4300k is the color temp. 5000k is considered daylight, anything 6000+ looks very blue/purple. 4300k is the brightest light output you can get. I ordered the kit from an online company. I don't want to step on any advertisers toes, so I will only post the site if an admin approves. (not that you can't tell...) Here's what came in the box  Now this kit was supposed to be completely plug and play. I found that to be a little misleading. You still had to string wires back to the battery. As we all know, buells are not know for their wasted space. Here are some before photo taken within my commercial parking garage (I would love to have my own someday). Here is the original halogen low beam  Here is the halogen high beam  Here are both low and high (using the middle switch trick)  When trying to find a place for the ballast I found it too big to place under the flyscreen, and the included wiring harness was too short to reach back to the seat. Not that I really thought it would fit. Keep in mind that philips has a new generation of HID ballasts that are wide, but very thin. One of these might fit under that seat. The only place I could get my ballast to fit was under the airbox cover. I really hope that by placing it along side the aircleaner I am not hurting any engine performance. Only time will tell...  The ballast used a thick vibration absorbing sticky pad to secure it to the airbox base. I had to file a small grove in the front of the airbox cover to slide the cables through. I fed the cable along side the factory cables to the front flyscreen area. Here I placed the high voltage relay, and the other 12v relay. The 12v relay is plugged into the factory headlight harness (H7 bulb). From the 12v relay harness I fed a wire back under the frame along the factory wires again back the battery (+ connection). A ground was made under the airbox for the ballast (I just used one the airbox screws as a ground)  The way the system works is that your factory headlight wire triggers the 12v relay that is getting its power from the battery. Although HID use only 35w of juice when running (halogen is 55w). the initial start up draws quite a number of amps. that is why you do not want to pull power directly from the factory harness. Here is the final result. It was getting late, so i have not had time to properly aim the headlight, but this will give you an idea what HID can do on a Buell Total time = ~2 hours  After doing this I don't think I would ever go back. Now if I had the room, I would have installed a 2nd set (low and high).  | ||
| Henrik |
Thanks for the pictures and very nice write-up Jamie. 4300K is very close in color temperature to "Cool White" fluorescent bulbs, just for reference. Question; in that last picture are you showing the low beam or high beam? Henrik | ||
| Sweatmark |
Corporate- Great info and nice install! Any problems with bulb/lamp installation? Any mounting depth issues you see for the H7 to HID swap? Mark Oregon | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Henrik, The last photo is HID low beam. It was raining last night so I didn't re-aim the lights. It will be a little lower when I finish. Luckily aim the lights on a xb9xs is really easy. Just loosen 3 bolts, and aim away. Sweatmark, I had very little issues with the bulb install. I used a rebased bulb so it fit perfectly. If you order HID make sure you get them from a reputable source. True HID (like what factory automakers use) have a unique base that will not fit any factory halogen housing. The good aftermarket HID companies buy their bulbs from philips (there are a few good ones from Japan too) remove the original HID base, and use a laser to properly level and mount an halogen base (in this case an h7) This is critical to beam pattern. Some manufactures (I have seen some ebay kits like this) just use an adapter plate. This causes the HID light bulb to be out of position within the light housing, causing a lot of glare. Think how many times you have had some kid in a lowered honda civic with horribly blinding headlights. The original honda headlamps had a beam pattern that was designed for halogen. If the civic owner had used a properly rebased bulb, all would be well. Now for changing the bulb that was easy, the hard part was slicing through the rubber gasket that surround the back of the headlight housing. I needed the low beam harness free from the housing to plug into a 12v relay. Just a little electrical tape put the rubber gasket cover back together. This took all of 10 minutes. | ||
| Sweatmark |
Thanks for reponse. HID was installed in low beam position on my BMW Rockster, and it's Glare City, man. Overtaking cars on the road yields huge side glare that illuminates the interior like a SWAT team floodlight... guessing the original owner used something other than correct base, as you've described above. So, considering transplant of HID from Beemer to Buell (typically ridden only during daylight); hence, questions about your project. We'll have to compare notes if/when a Pacific Northwest Buell thing ever happens... maybe this summer or autumn? Mark Oregon | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Well if your BMW HID kit uses HID bulbs that uses the standard connector (the name skips my mind, but it uses two small connectors) I would just upgrade the bulbs, as long as your ballasts are good, why waste them. The only downside is that sometimes new bulbs are more than an entire new kit. If I remember right the rockster has larger low beam light, right? If $ was not a problem you could go all out and custom fit a set of projectors. I saw something on amercian sportbikes page. I suspect a set of those projects and decent machinist you could truly have something cool. As for a NW buell group, I have heard that Steve over at downtown harley is starting a brag group. He said at first is was going to be an addition to the regular HOG group, but if there is demand he will apply for a full separate group. Downtown HD claims they are the largest Buell dealer (by sales #) on the west coast. By the number of bike sold I could believe it. Yet I rarely ever see Buell's around Seattle. | ||
| Henrik |
Thanks for all the info Jamie. Good stuff as I'm looking for some more light on the S2. Henrik | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Well I just went out to take a photo to compare the low (HID) and high (halogen)  I was hard for to get this shot, the lights were over powering the camera. But as you can see there is quite a difference between the two. | ||
| Henrik |
Wow - nice shot! Thanks for the comparison. I may have to make the change. Aerostitch/Riderwearhouse has an HID conversion kit that will work with high/low in the same housing, i.e. an H4 replacement. Not too expensive either ... all things considered. Henrik | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
I don't know exactly how aerostich's H4 high/low kit works. But in the past some manufactures used a motorized shield that would move to position the HID arc in the proper position for low/high. I have heard some horror story's with these types of setups malfunctioning at just the wrong time. I haven't seen these types of systems much anymore, but nor have I seen a new replacement technology. Before you order a set, I would ask some serious questions on how it works. Personally I would just run a single bulb (just low beam). I believe in the KISS method. If you happen to be on a lonely stretch of road at night (think road trip) just re-aim your lights. I don't know how difficult that is on an S2, but on an xbs they include a little allen bolt tool that makes it a sub 10sec job. | ||
| Henrik |
Jamie; thanks for the heads up on the H4 question. I'll throughly grill them before plunking down $$. I'd prefer high/low beam capability - adjusting the headlight on the S2 requires extremely small hands and lots of patience. Not necessarily a roadside job in the dark. I've been wanting to add aux lights as well, so the combination might make up for lack of high beam. I'll continue the research. Thanks again Henrik | ||
| 2k4xb12 |
The kit seems to be very attractively priced. Just curious which costs more -- the kit or the ticket for illegal headlights? | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
I think it depends where you live. From the research I have done here in WA, it would be considered along the lines of "faulty equipment" ticket. The fines are not too bad for that. Before I embarked on this project I talked to quite a few people whom had already done this. Not a single one of them has ever had problems, as long as they used a reasonable color temp (4300-6000k). Those that when for the look (8000k+) said they had been questioned, but never ticketed. I would put the risk along the line of a after-market pipe. Too me a ticket is better than not being able to see, or be seen... | ||
| Cacciola |
Awesome!!! I've got the same kit, but for Hi/low, but I hadnt had time to install it yet... Im just worried because i am used to flash my hi beam alot to warn the drivers that im getting closer, so either i gotta loose this habbit or burn my hids... I dont think they will handle the flashing that good... | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
HID really don't like being flashed. It puts a real strain on the ballast. When I start up my light cold it takes 5-10sec to come to full brightness. There is an initial "flash" that the ballast provides to get the lights going. Why did you get a hi/low set? Did you mean to say you got a pair of HID's? One for low, one for hi? As for placing two ballasts, I really don't know if there is the room. | ||
| Cacciola |
I bought the pair, its just the same as yours but for cars, so actually its your kit x2, so it's actually cheaper if you consider putting on 2 bikes... but i bought for hi/low as the bulbs are just the same and I really need bright headlights around here. I think i'll be allright with the ballasts as i have an open airbox kit, i might build up a support to fit one on top of the other... I'll try to photograph the whole process too... Thanks for the info! | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Cacciola, Here are the photos you requested. I hope this helps.   | ||
| Cacciola |
Thanks, that helps a lot for sure!! Its not as bad as i thought it would be!! Thanks again! | ||
| Cacciola |
Oh, I just noticed you use your etrex too, i've got the same bracket but I cutted a little notch at the clutch connector and placed it right next to the left mirror base, between it and the cross bar... its in a good position i just didnt like it staying permanently at my crossbar just staring at me, putting where i told it just sits there you can barely notice it  | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
With my gps, I tried putting it further left (like you did) but I didn't like that it had very little protection. I took one trip with it like that and it was covered in grime(bugs, dirt, etc). With it behind the speedo it protects it more. The only downside is when I have my tank bag on it partially obscures it. | ||
| Cacciola |
Humm, good point! | ||
| Too_tall_todd |
Hey corporatemonkey, great documentation on your project. I am seriously thinking about hid on my uly. The question that I have is about startup, when I turn on the ignition I have to wait for the bike to run through its diagnostics before cranking it over. When I do that the voltage to the headlights drops, how would the hid take this? the alternative that I have is to install an on/off switch and turn on the headlights, not an elegant solution. what is your thoughts on the subject. thanks T3 | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Too Tall, I know exactly what you are talking about. Instead of a switch, I just make sure to turn on the high beam (halogen) before I start the bike. I really don't think that it would put a huge strain on the ballast/igniter (after all they are designed to handle voltage variations), but I still do not want to stress it more than I have too. I have heard of some horror stories with ballast giving out without warning. These ballasts were primarily from McColluch (sp?). They have since stopped selling those, at least under the same brand name. As for putting HID on a Uly I couldn't think of better deserving Buell. I went for a late night ride the last night to try out some new goodies (there is another thread on this somewhere) and while out in the middle of nowhere I went to turn on my high beam (switch in the middle) well I missed and turned off the low beam, leaving just the high beam. Well at the time I was traveling at an excess speed (I know, I know...) it was pure terror. After a while you just get used to the effectiveness of HID, and when you have to revert back it's quite shocking that the DOT actually allowed Buell to put these lights on the market. Last thing I have found that the white light that HID produce reflect nicely off of deer eyes. I have been able to see them hiding by the roadside long before I used to. | ||
| Cacciola |
Hey corporatemonkey, just did my installation!!! But i did for the hi and Low, i placed the second ballast upright right behind the first one... it fits really nice, but i directed the cables different then you, i routed 2 over the frame like you did, and the other 2 under the air box to the oem cables, its just cleaner, as soon as i take pictures i'll post. Its wierd that everything non HID seems so old now  Thanks for your help! | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Congrats, looking forward to seeing the photos | ||
| Reepicheep |
I just finished my installation. I used the same kit Jamie did, my 9sx is an 05 (which has less airbox space to play with). I don't want to repeat, I am just going to build on information already in this thread, and the great information at: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=32777&post=756498#POST756498 I had two additional goals. 1) I did not want to loose the "flash to pass" signaling capabilities on the stock bike. 2) I did not want to "double cycle" the HID every time I start the bike. Item one was simple to solve, the HID goes in the low beam assembly, and the bright light runs as is. I like being able to flash my lights to get peoples attention when necessary, under many circumstances they will reach further then my horn can, and instinct is to grab both horn and flash when I think somebody does not see me. Item two was important (or I convinced myself that it was important anyway) because from what I understand, HID's don't wear out bulbs, they wear out ballasts, and they only wear when you are cycling the light back on. If I just wired it up as the instructions read, every time I started the bike, I would turn the key, tuning on the HID, then hit the starter after the fuel pump pumped up, killing the HID. If the bike did not start with the first blip (not unusual), I would hit the starter again, and "blink" the HID again. Not good, though how bad it really is I have no idea. The instructions from in the kit *did* warn against excessive flashing though, so there is probably a real issue there. Plan A (which worked fairly well) was to just hook the low beam HID relay (came in the kit) direct to the tail lamp. This does not cut out when you hit the starter. So the HID comes on when you hit the ignition, and stays on while you hit the starter. I tapped into the tail light line right under the fuse box (which pops up fairly easily. A nice fused line easily accessible that is hot whenever your ignition key is "on". This worked fairly well, but there was at least one (of about 5 tries) when the HID cut out anyway. I am guessing the starter dropped the voltage enough to restart the ballast. On at least one other start, the ballast switched off and stayed off until I "rebooted" the bike, so the flaky voltages the ballast sees during start up are probably not a good thing. So that gave me all the excuse I needed for doing "plan B", which I wanted to do anyway. More on that below. My routing was a little more pretty then Jamie's, though probably no more functional.  You can remove the bolt for what I presume is a Firebolt fairing mounting point. On the Lightnings, it just holds down a cable armor cover. You can wedge the new wire in there, but it's tight.  My airbox (gutted) layout was a little trickier then Jamie's as well. He has an 06 XB (which covered the frame snorkel). My 05 still has the snorkel (though it probably does not really need it with the gutted airbox) and I did not want to just arbitrarily block it. I could have mounted the ballast up where the exhaust servo normally goes, that would have worked well, but I have a stash of tools up in there already . So my mount looked very similar to what Jamie did (coincidentally, I did not remember where he put it).  The routing from there to under the seat went down through the frame beside the fan, which was straightforward but annoying. Not much margin in there.  From there, it went straight to the battery (main power feed to the HID).  Let me post this and follow it up with the "tricky bit"... | ||
| Reepicheep |
So now to address the "excessive cycle" problem. The best and simplest solution I could think of was simply to still turn on the HID as a result of the ignition key being turned "on", but to delay it by a sufficient margin so that I will typically have the bike successfully started before the HID turns on the first time. So I designed this:   On a cold start, it waits about 80 seconds from the time the ignition has been turned on before triggering the relay that will turn on the HID. This is more then enough time for me to comfortably get the bike started and idling smoothly. On warm starts (complements of D1 and RB) the delay is lowered to only about 60 seconds.  C1 is 220 uF electrolytic (5v or greater). R1 is 2.5 Megaohms (1/4 or 1/8 watt) RB is 10k ohms (1/4 or 1/8 watt) Q1 and Q2 are NPN switching transistors. The diode is any silicone switching diode (small is fine). This is about $3 worth of parts (unless you get them at radio shack, in which case they are $10 ). R1 and C1 determine the delay. A smaller C1 or smaller R1 would make a shorter delay. The transistors are set up in a Darlington configuration to get the gain necessary to keep the capacitor a reasonable size on the base side (which is a tiny amount of current) but get enough current on the collector side to drive the relay (150 millamps, a decent amount). The transistors I used had a beta (gain) of 200, but even a 2n2222 with a gain of something like 80 would probably work fine with this setup. D1 and RB handle the "reset / warm restart" capability. The capacitor C1 "half discharges" when the ignition is turned back off. The net effect is that a cold start is an 80 second delay, a warm start is a 60 second delay. To hook it up, the hot (V+) lead to the relay hooks up to the tail lamp lead as previously discussed. The "ground" lead from the relay goes to that lower relay connector in my schematic (at the collector of the transistors). When power is applied, C1 gradually charges up, limited in speed by the amount of current that can flow through R1. Until it reaches 1.2 volts (.6 volts for each transitor base to emitter junction), it won't flow any current through the transitor. As soon as the capacitor reaches 1.2 volts however, the path of least resistance for the current is suddenly to flow through the transistor base, which turns them on (closes the switch). Current through the transistor base is also limited by R1. Current through the transistor collector is limited by the relay resistance... don't just short the relay connection or the transistors will probably die when they turn on. Because R1 is so big (it has to be so that our Capacitor will charge slowly) the gain of the transistors has to be fairly significant. You could probably hear local AM radio stations through that transistor if you wanted. The Darlington trick was one I remembered from my small signal circuits prof (thanks Elvin... http://homepages.uc.edu/~steppe/) It would have been easier to use an op amp in a voltage comparator mode, or even logic chips (i.e. an AND gate). I would have, except that the op-amps I had laying around that could drive sufficient current were all +5 volt supply parts, with a maximum supply voltage of 12v. I didn't want to bake them with 13.8 charging volts. The transistors will be happy all the way up to 30 volts or so. Besides, the discrete parts are cooler. No school like the old school  There may also be "plug compatible" relays with built in delays, I did not look. It's an easy build, feel free to post or email with questions. Think there would be a market for these things on eBay? I would recommend badwebbers build their own with my schematic above, but I would be happy to feed off all the Japanese appliance owners | ||
| Diablobrian |
Thanks Reepicheep, I intend to install an HID low beam on my firebolt eventually and this was a very nice write-up. The schematic and pics are very nice!  | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
All I have to say is "GEEK!!!"  Seriously, congrats on finally getting HID. Wonderful stuff. I still do not know why you went to all the trouble to build a timed circuit? I admittedly feel totally out geeked by your setup, but why not just switch off the low beam during startup? That's all I have ever done, it seems very KISS to me... I saw where you ran the wires, I looked at doing that myself, but when I was looking on where to hid my wires (after a long ride) I torched my fingers poking around in that area. I know it was a complete "duh" moment, but I did point out just how much heat pours off these air cooled motors. I couldn't confirm what heat rating the wire harness could handle, nor did I want a huge heat shield getting in the way. Once again the KISS method won over. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Another question, how did you get that ballast? I have heard that they do not sell that ballast anymore? They have a new slim model that has better weather protection. I think samiam has the new ballasts on his xbr, maybe he can post a pic? |
