| Author | Message | ||
     Jim_m |
This month, we are treated to a comparo of sorts between the Ducati S4R, MV Augusta Brutale and the Buell XB12S. Interestingly enough, no real negatives to be said of the lot of them. The XB got hit for a stiff suspension, stiff clutch, stiff steering (compared to the others) and the trailbraking issue. The Brutale got hit for too much of a race suspension (couldn't handle bumpy roads as well as nice, smooth racetrack like roads)and sucking down gas (they averaged 23 mpg). The Duc got hit for being the most "practical" of the lot, excessive heat by your heel and a less than finished look than the other two. Other than those quibbles, all three came out pretty well. | ||
| Ferris |
i liked the comment "...the Buell felt as if it had been chipped out of billet." also interesting to note that they called the XB a "price leader." i've ridden a new 12, and the clutch pull is not bad at all, and the added displacement sure makes it happy, happy. hard to imagine a naked Duc ever being labled "pratical." i saw an S4R in person last weekend, and it is One Gorgeous Motorcycle, tho. the pix in this piece were shot just a few minutes from my house. FB | ||
| Jim_m |
I'm amazed that the Buell did so well in the article...usually they seem to get hit for their mills, but there wasn't a lot of talk about it at all. best comment was "In fact, even if you get really lazy about shifting there's 40 ft.-lbs. of twist at just 1500 rpm. The MV, in ridiculous contrast, only ever makes 50 ft.-lbs., and that's up at 10,200 revs!" Of course, they follow the comparision with a KTM Duke 990 preview. Man, that thing looks even uglier after looking at the first 3 bikes. Still looks interesting, but the contrast between the smooth, flowing lines of the "exotics" and the sharp angular lines of the Duke really smacks your senses. | ||
| Bomber |
a remarkably even-handed writeup . . . . . . enough so that they will likely piss off equal numbers of Duck/Buell/MV fans this is, of course, nearly the definition of objective journalism | ||
| Bigj |
The Duke may be ugly, in some peoples eyes, but I have a feeling it'll put a whuppin' on any of the three bikes mentioned above.  | ||
| Jim_m |
"The Duke may be ugly, in some peoples eyes, but I have a feeling it'll put a whuppin' on any of the three bikes mentioned above." Of that, I have no doubt at all. I think the Duke brings a hell of a lot to the table. | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
Not in the twisties. It has a 57" wheelbase. Although I like chome moly, I doubt the frame is as stiff as the XB. In a straight line, sure. But, if that is what you are interest in, there are plenty of better bikes for probably a lot less money. | ||
| Bigj |
There's a lot more to handling than a wheelbase.  | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
Exactly, that is why I mentioned the differences in frames. Are you thinking that it could corner as well (fast) as an XB? | ||
| Djkaplan |
The Brutale averaged only 23mpg? What the hell? | ||
| Bykergeek |
>>The Brutale averaged only 23mpg? What the hell?<< The Augusta uses a rotary valve engine and is not really suited to low rpm operation... Exotic as hell but also impractical for my world. | ||
| Ray_maines |
In the Dec. issue of Motorcyclist, Alan Cathcart can't say enough good things about the way the KTM 990 Super Duke handles. He burbles on and on about how wonderful the bike is and the only bad thing said is that there's a nasty vibration in the footpegs under full load between 5,800 and 9,200 rpm. Like that would bother a Buell rider. | ||
| Dynarider |
Exactly, that is why I mentioned the differences in frames. Are you thinking that it could corner as well (fast) as an XB? Of the articles to date, without exception the riders are claiming its the best handling bike they have been on. It nay be goofy looking, but maybe thats the whole idea. If it looked like all the other bikes out there it might be overlooked. But look at how many folks just on the Buell boards are talking about it. The styling is controversial, but everyone knows what the hell it is. | ||
| Bomber |
I somehow doubt if there are more than 3 or 4 folks on this board that are capable of riding the XB, Duke, MV or KTM to the point where their differences might slow them down . . . .I know I can't . . .. . . boils down to which you "like" the feel/look of the mmost . . .. . the MV still looks like they didn't finish the job to me, the educk is duck-like (nothing new to their fit and finish woes), the XB is growing on me, and the KTM is very 20's germanic-design-likde . . . .I've only ridden the VX, which I enjoyed greatly . . . .I'd love a try on the KTM . . the duck and the MV don't engage me much (Like I could afford the MV {smile}) | ||
| Bads1 |
The artical's that Dyna speak of are of the same I've read and Dyna has hit the nail on the head.The XB does have a weird feeling compared to longer wheel based bikes and ounce you over come the feeling the bike starts to staighten the twisties. | ||
| Glitch |
ounce you over come the feeling the bike starts to staighten the twisties. Well said... I loved this. Kinda says it all. Basically, each asks of you certain things you must tolerate, counted as character, but each also pays you back with it's own distinct and wonderful riding experience. Our best advice in this case? Simple: Vote with your heart. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Duke 990: a claimed wet weight of 429 pounds, 120 rwhp, and an MSRP below $12,000. KTM moves the goal posts.... | ||
| Rocketman |
That article ! To put it in comparison, this week MCN back to back tested the Monster S4R, the Brutale S and the Aprilia Tuono Racing. The test venue was Cadwell Park race circuit in Lincolnshire, England. Cadwell is one if not the best bike racing circuit in the UK, maybe even the world. ` From MCN...... The Brutale is basically a standard F4 from the waist down. But the Brutale's minimal bodywork has been carefully and lovingly designed specifically for this model.Its beautiful lines were penned by Massimo Tamburini, the same designer responsible for creating the F4 and of course, the iconic Ducati 916. The attention to detail is stunning, expressed in features like the quick-release front wheel clamp and the dinky choke lever mounted on the right handlebar. The way the Brutale makes power from its short stroke, 750cc four cylinder engine couldn't be more different than the relatively lazy V-twin 1000's of the Aprilia and Ducati. Making an impressive 108bhp at a heady 13,000rpm, just before the rev limiter bangs in, the power delivery is thrilling. The motor just begs to be screamed. The MV feels the fastest bike here thanks to that power delivery and shrill note from the twin exhausts. And it almost is. It hits 151mph flat out - that's just 3mph slower than the Aprilia despite the fact it has no fairing to duck behind. Acceleration is blistering too, thanks to it being the lightest bike of the bunch, and with no plastic to weigh the front end down you can just imagine how much it likes to wheelie.... But despite its revvy nature, there's still enough midrange to play with at more everyday speeds - but obviously not as much as the 1000cc twins of the Ducati and the Aprilia. Although the Brutale's motor is basically the same as the fully faired F4's , its cylinder head has been reworked to give more midrange power. The gearbox ratios have also been revised to suit real-world street riding. Out of the crate the Brutale has the most race-focused handling of the bunch. At Cadwell Park wearing its Dunlop D207RR tyres, (the same tyres used on the Yamaha R6 Cup bikes) the chassis is crisp, the steering precise and mid-corner stability is excellent. The Showa suspension offers tons of feedback at each end. Being the lightest and fastest-steering bike it's easy to flick about. There's ground clearance in abundance, too. Hauling the Brutale to a stop is never a problem thanks to its powerful six-piston Nissin set-up combined with a lightweight chassis. Peak power 108.4bhp @ 12,000rpm Peak torque 51.8 @ 10,500rpm Top speed 151.35mph Standing quarter - mile 11.45sec @ 121.51 Braking from 70 - 0 mph 3.52sec's 48.01m Acceleration.... 0 - 60mph 3.42sec 0 -100mph 7.23sec 0 - 150 28.57sec The XB12 is not in the same league me thinks! Rocket  | ||
| Ray_maines |
I really like the look, sound, power and feel of a full liter bike. The last thing I need or want is some hyper active 750 that makes 108hp at at 12,000 rpm. Why not a 250cc bike that turns 16 thousand rpm and makes 109 hp? Or a 125 that makes 110hp at 47,500 rpm? Or a big fat V-Twin that makes 90hp and 75 lb/ft of torque at 5,000 rpm? | ||
| Dynarider |
piss on the 3 bikes in that article, look at that road on page 54!!!!!! | ||
| Rocketman |
Well I tell you why, because despite the fact that Buell make the best looking 'fighter' motorcycles on the planet, all be it not as good looking as they use to be, the MV has stolen their thunder and not just in the looks department. Having said that Buell (Erik) it seems prides himself in building unconventional yet superior handling motorcycles - mostly reliant upon the fact this his work in this field is exceptional which gives his motorcycles an edge that helps them keep up or stay in front of the opposition, but not in the performance department despite their looks suggesting otherwise. See Buell's an engineer foremost where as nearly all other companies building performance motorcycles fall heavily upon their racing heritage - thus combining performance and engineering as major criteria for their designs whilst Buell it seems can't stop fucking around playing at engineering genius. That's all well and good if you're building reliable and powerful motorcycles but he is not(he can't combine the two using the dinosaur motor). Instead Buell has used his genius as an engineer to re-hash an out of date engine that should be left to Harley's Sportster which doesn't need to go fast. You want to sell 50,000 Buells in 2007 you need to build Buells that sell to younger riders and not a bunch of old farts that have passed their sell by date when it comes to breaking the performance stakes. That MV is a scream listening to those who have ridden it - just like any Buell - except when you open the throttle on the MV it will leave ALL Buells in its wake simply because it has the performance and handling to do so. Am I biased in my thoughts? Well I bought the Buell dream but they still don't make a high performance bike that can break 150mph - nor distort the view of the approaching horizon quick enough - something I've wanted for a long time and I've opened my eyes to other rides since my Buell has been down for well over a year and I'd clearly forgot how good a multi-cylinder screamer can be. Rocket | ||
| Mikej |
0 -100mph 7.23sec 0 - 150 28.57sec ================= 100-150mph 21.34sec  | ||
| Bomber |
Rocker . . .not sure about elsewhere, but the folks showing up on XBs are significantly younger than the tuber riders . . . . not as young as the squids and xtremewannebeboyz, but late 20s/early30s seems to be the mean, according to my seat of the pants, non-scientific reasearch performed in teh Chicago/Milwaukee area | ||
| Piggos |
Funny, I've noticed the same thing- here in SoCal the XB riders I see are much younger than Buell riders in the past. I thought it interesting that the usual Buell crowd wasn't trading their older bikes for new stuff, rather the guys (and gals) buying XB's looked like the R6 demographic. | ||
| Bads1 |
Your right Bomber and if there any younger there having one hell of a time getting insurance.So there riding without that makes sense.Or the mommy, Daddy money tree. | ||
| Cj_xb |
but the folks showing up on XBs are significantly younger Thank you, thank you very much !! (in my best Elvis voice!) | ||
| M1combat |
Well, I fall into the "new" Buell demographic except that I pay for my own stuff... In any case, how long does it take an XB12R to make it to 135? How long would it take to make it to 150 with a six speed gearbox? Not that I care about that too much, I want a bike that is rare AND very capable. I see a lot of 998's, 999's and a few 916's around here. The rest are all GSXR's. I ride with a 66 Triumph chopper and a 75 Sporty chopper... I don't even need the performance of a Buell as our standard cruising speed is about 60  . | ||
| Rocketman |
Oh yeah I can go with that but that's in the States. Over here the bike venues are littered in their thousands with Japanese bikes on any summers weekend when the orb is shinning. Hardly ever see an XB nor Buell on the whole but I don't think I've ever seen anyone younger the Jilles (Redstripe) riding a Buell on this side of the ocean. In the States it'd be Roc but he was the exception by about 15 years in the tube frame days! Mike I'll put that into perspective for you..... Aprilia Tuono Racing 112.3bhp @ 9200rpm 70.35ftlb @ 7200rpm 0 - 100mph 6.98 sec 0 - 150mph 24.27 sec 100 - 150mph 17.29 sec That's 4.05 seconds faster than the 750cc four cyl Brutale against the 1000cc V-twin Tuono R. The Tuono R does it in 1215.59 M the Brutale 1474.96 M That's a pretty impressive gap I grant you but it is not the full story. The Tuono R makes a huge portion of that gap from 120 - 150mph. The Brutale is snapping at its heels all the way to 120mph and that's pretty impressive too I reckon. Tuono R 0 - 120mph 9.83 sec 313.54 M Brutale 0 - 120mph 10.71 sec 362.51 M The Tuono R is .88 of a second and 48.97 meters in front of the Brutale at 120mph. That is pretty good for the Brutale given the difference in capacity and torque. Incidentally neither the Monster S4R or Tuono R can match the Brutale 0 - 70mph. Swings and roundabouts! Now what would be interesting would be to compare the Nallin XB12S figures to those above and not just the dyno figures. By all accounts the Nallin XB12S should piss all over the Brutale, Tuono R and S4R, right? I'd like to see by how much before I buy a Brutale. Rocket | ||
| Dynarider |
In any case, how long does it take an XB12R to make it to 135? How long would it take to make it to 150 with a six speed gearbox? Supposedly the 12 tops out at 132mph & there is no 6 speed gearbox. | ||
| Bads1 |
Go to Craig Jones Web sight.It says that he broke his old stoppie record the new one is 865 feet and they clocked the 12R at 140mph. |
