| Author | Message | ||
     Longdog_cymru |
I read in a British magazine called "American V" of a solution to Harley heat and fuelling issues. An American company called Nightrider, produces a plug and play device called an IED that fools the ECU into thinking that the closed loop is receiving 14.7 fuel/air ratio while actually delivering 13.8 fuel/air ratio. This delivers a richer and cooler charge, giving more power and cooler running. I wrote to Nightrider to inquire about the possibility of such a device for Buells. Here is the reply I received: The single wire O2 sensor of the Buell is not compatible with the dual wire sensors the IED's were designed for. So far we don't have enough critical mass on the Buells to market a similar device as we have been able to on the HD's. Stephen Mullen SPMullen LLC www.Nightrider.com www.tuneyourharley.com | ||
| Teeps |
On pre '08s, the same thing can be done with ECM Spy. | ||
| Red_chili |
I expect the same thing could be done by an enterprising individual by employing a resistor voltage divider (with a potentiometer, to be able to adjust the overall mixture bias). | ||
| Longdog_cymru |
Hi Teeps, I appreciate this, but for lots of people, a length of wire with a standard fit harness plug at either end and the magic gubbins in the middle might encourage people to realise the potential of their Buells. I've never used ECM Spy, but I can see how it might worry some owners and they may never use it. I would like to try it myself sometime. | ||
| Red_chili |
It's like riding a different motorcycle, mate. Telling the ECM that stoich is at 14.5, or 14, or 13.7, is only one small cell on one page in the application. The rest of the application allows you to personally tune the entire fuel and timing maps and check your work with datalogging to make sure. Begins to approximate a dyno tune (close enough for most at least; limited IMHO by the narrow band Buell O2 sensor only), in real world conditions, for the price of cable components (and paying the registration for MegaLogViewer, which only seems right). (Message edited by Red_Chili on September 03, 2008) | ||
| Longdog_cymru |
Hi, I thanked Stephen Mullen for his reply and he sent me this: I've tried several times to get a Buell in my shop long enough to develop and test a specific IED for these bikes, but just can't seem to get anyone in my area that wants to take that "edge" of the stock bike. They either want to leave the bike bone stock or make major engine mods. The real issue is not making the IED, but getting enough volume to get connectors so the product can be "plug-n-play". Because the Buell is single wire, I also need to find a good location for a permanent ground wire. Doesn't sound like much, but this could turn into the weak link because if the ground goes, so does the functionality. Stephen Mullen SPMullen LLC www.Nightrider.com www.tuneyourharley.com | ||
| Longdog_cymru |
Hi Red Chilli, I totally agree with everything that you say. Perhaps what we need on here is a step-by-step tutorial as a sticky. A basic guide to exactly what to look for in ECM Spy, what to change, what not to change. How does everyone else feel? | ||
| Red_chili |
I've been reluctant to be specific because the principal players are not sponsors here, and the sponsors here are excellent folks. This may give you a quick brush with the procedure though: http://www.musclecross.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id= 194 | ||
| Benriding |
So what options do those of us with 08's have. I'm not looking for massive increases or major mods just want everything up to it's potential and efficient. Proper flow without unneeded restrictions, should mean smooth usable power. | ||
| Tootal |
When you said 13.8 I was ready to correct you but decided to check nightrider since I hadn't been there in a while. Man, they have them for not only 13.8 but 14.0 and 14.2! According to Joe Minton of American Rider magazine, harley's are happiest at 14.0 however will perform better at 13.8. If you want it to run better and keep as much mileage then go for 14.2. It is too bad they don't work on the Buell. My neighbor has one on his geezer glide and loves it. I do have ecmspy and am going to tweek the levels on the O2 sensors one notch when I get it back from the dealer. I put it back to bone stock just in case they happen to plug her in!!! None of my warranty issues were ecm related but why take the chance! tootal | ||
| Teeps |
Longdog_cymru Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 Hi Teeps, I appreciate this, but for lots of people, a length of wire with a standard fit harness plug at either end and the magic gubbins in the middle might encourage people to realise the potential of their Buells. I agree, I had a TFI unit on my bike for 18 months. It was pretty much plug and play; but for the life of me, I couldn't detect any improvement or detriment to the engine's performance. Oh yea, it's for sale... I've never used ECM Spy, but I can see how it might worry some owners and they may never use it. I would like to try it myself sometime. You got that right; adjust the wrong thing and bad things WILL happen. | ||
| Longdog_cymru |
Thanks for the link Red Chilli  | ||
| Red_chili |
I'll take you up on that toast someday in person mate. Hopefully before I need a walker. I met a guy from Wales at work one day, by walking in the front door and almost having a heart attack. Looked just like my father... who is dead. I can imagine a whole countryside of Dad's clones...  | ||
| Conchop |
Red Chilli, I've visited the link you provided, very good place. I'm curious about the flowmaster muffler and whether any of this tuning can be done on an Apple and an 08 Uly. Do you have any idea's? | ||
| Longdog_cymru |
I'll take you up on that toast someday in person mate. Hopefully before I need a walker. I met a guy from Wales at work one day, by walking in the front door and almost having a heart attack. Looked just like my father... who is dead. I can imagine a whole countryside of Dad's clones... Hi Red Chilli, So you are an ex-pat? I was in Denver about 10 years ago. I loved the whole area, visited Littleton too, (if I remember correctly, I went to the Burris establishment there), and toured around the whole area before going on a 3 week road trip. I think Colorado is one of the nicest places I have visited, (Alabama was the other one). You'll be most welcome for that drink too! | ||
| Red_chili |
Not an ex-pat, unless you count several generations removed. Last name, Morgan, if that pegs it for you! Hey, anytime you come back to Littleton let us know and we will put you up. Burris establishment doesn't ring a bell right off at least... Bemis maybe? We've got a new Celtic pub not far away, classy place, the cook is Irish and gifted. It would be fun to hoist that beer with you over shepherd's pie or corned beer or any of a number of excellent dishes he prepares. Conchop, no, the software is written in VB6 and makes Windows API calls. If you don't have a COM port (and who does anymore), you need drivers (available free) to turn the USB into a virtual COM port. Then communications are via TTL232 (5V). The guy who assembled that site is collaborating with XOPTI to write a guide that is... intelligible. LOL. He is off to a good start. Tell you what, the more I diddle with this ECM the more I learn about these motors and what they like and don't like. Just today solved a 2.5K surge based on others' advice and some thinking it through. I am told there is a lot of valve overlap at that RPM so things are really touchy and quite sensitive to timing, fuel, and exhaust design. Higher up, not so touchy, but does respond well to fueling and timing (which XOPTI exploits). Heat is no longer an issue unless I am sitting in utter traffic jams, but it would be with anything. Fun stuff, so much easier and more precise than carbs (of course it is, duh, but I still have a 'moment' when I think of it  ). I got an XR650R (true teakettle) to behave temperature-wise too, but boy it wasn't as easy to do. I like these Buell motors as well as I like old Toyotas and for many of the same reasons. You kinda get an instinct for them after a while. They speak to you. Tough as hell too. | ||
| Dynasport |
I am beginning to like my carbs more and more. And I don't mean bread. You know those old fashioned things with jets in them. Trouble free, mine are. | ||
| Froggy |
I still to this day haven't figured out how a carb works. I looked it up online, but to me it seems like magic. How the hell someone figured it out in the first place i will never know. I just can't wait for force injected camless engines. I will be a billionare when i get it to work  |
