| Author | Message | ||
     Thunderstruck |
I know this topic has been covered to death on this board (believe me I hunted down and read all the threads trying to avoid being another poster with a dead charging system). But I need a quick opinion on why my battery is not charging and what my test results may indicate. It's an 05 XB12. Here it goes... Stator Tests: Continuity (sockets to ground) - .08 ohms on average for all sockets Resistance (sockets to sockets) - 0.0 across all sockets AC Output - 25 -30 volts at 2000 rpm DC Voltage at Battery 13 volts @ 4500rpm 11.5 @ idle 11.8 with engine off So I'm confused with the stator tests. The continuity readings seem to indicate a grounded stator since a good one should show no continuity. The resistance test also indicates an issue with the stator. According to the manual good readings are between 0.1 - 0.3 ohms. Yet, the stator is producing voltage. Although, the voltage less than the 32 - 40 volts @ 2000rpm that the manual says I should be generating at 2K. Can a grounded stator produce voltage ? I saw another post where tests indicated a grounded stator but it was generating power. It ended up being his VR. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/345178.html?1208576566 Certainly my DC voltage test indicates the battery is not getting enough of a charge since it takes 4500 rpm to produce 13 volts. Could it be that the lower AC output on my stator is resulting in less power to the VR and ultimately the battery. Or could it be a bad Voltage Regulator? I did check the connections and they all look clean and solid. I also applied dielectric grease to the stator connection. Man I just want to ride.... It's been a whole 2 weeks! Anybody care to help a brother out ? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Unless you are using your meter wrong, those stator tests are pretty conclusive. The stator is grounded. Perhaps there could be a little more debugging to make sure its the "inside part of the motor stator" and not the "outside part of the motor stator" (read: The infamous 77 connector). But when you measure from stator pin to ground and get something lower then gigaohms (infinity), something is really really wrong with your stator, even if it does produce voltage. Your VR is completely disconnected from the stator at that point, so it can't be adding "false readings". So if somebody got those readings on the stator test, and "fixed it" by replacing their voltage regulator, they were doing the test wrong (this isn't a slam, its easy to do it wrong). The only other possibility I could think of could be a marginal stator connector that a new voltage regulator assembly "helped" somehow (they connect together, so if both were melted, replacing one may help keep the other pins apart). The stator is probably shorted to ground, but with a "bad connection". So as the current goes up or the motor is running, you still get some voltage out, but you are slowly welding somewhere inside your stator and you are at the start of your death spiral. | ||
| Jlnance |
Can a grounded stator produce voltage? Yes. The Stator is basically a coil of wire. A grounded stator means that in at least one place, a turn of this coil is in contact with the frame of the bike. If you don't have the VR connected, and the stator is grounded in exactly one place, the ground will have no effect on the voltage reading. If it is grounded in multiple places, it will reduce the output voltage, but the part of the coil between the last short and wire will still be producing some output voltage. | ||
| Thunderstruck |
Reepicheep & JInance, Thanks for taking the time explain what could be happening in my case. It really does help me visualize what could be going on inside there. I think you convinced me there is no easy way out of this and I will need to disassemble the primary and drop $140 on a stator. At least I'll be able to rule it out if the problems persist. Should I visually inspect the rotor/stator before I purchase a new one since electrical parts can not be returned ? I should be able to see a stator failure. It is possible its (though not likely)its the rotor.... right? It's supposed to rain Saturday so the experience won't be too painful. | ||
| Jlnance |
Should I visually inspect the rotor/stator before I purchase a new one since electrical parts can not be returned ? I should be able to see a stator failure. I wouldn't count on being able to see the stator failure. You might be able to see it if it caused enough stuff to melt. But more than likely it is on the very innermost layer of wire and on the back side (this is what touches the frame.) You won't be able to see that w/o unwinding the wire, which of course would destroy the stator. It is possible its (though not likely)its the rotor.... right? The rotor is steel wheel with a bunch of magnets glued to the inside. About the only way it can break is for the magnets to crack or come unglued. And if they do, you won't get the short to ground reading that you are seeing. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Agreed! If you had a rotor problem, you would know by all the exploding metal noises as those magnets get chewed up by the stator. It'd be hard to miss  A better "visual" inspection of the stator is a sniff test (no kidding). When the thing goes, the combination of insulation and primary fluid cooking smells about as awful as you can imagine. Pop off the primary chain inspection cover (two screws) and take a deep sniff. If your eyes cross, its the stator.  | ||
| Thunderstruck |
I've located all the parts I need to do the job but I'll have to drive about an hour and a half to the dealer that has a stator in stock. I should do the smell test but I'd be leaving from work to get to the dealer, so that's not going to happen. The thing is, this charging problem didn't suddenly happen. I've notices weak turn-overs for a few months now. And since the stator is still producing some power, I may not smell it??? Should I chance and just make the drive without the wiff-test, that way I can get this thing together tomorrow? Thanks again for all the insight! | ||
| Jlnance |
Continuity (sockets to ground) - .08 ohms on average for all sockets Your stator is bad. Regardless of what it looks like or smells like, it shouldn't have continuity to ground. | ||
| Jlnance |
 Found a picture to make this a bit clearer. This is a stator. You can see the coils, each of which is wrapped around an iron or steel center. The coils are formed from enamel covered copper wire. The way these things typically fail is that the enamel will wear through and the wire will short to something. This can be the steel frame, as has happened in your case, or two different turns of wire on a coil can short to each other. That one is harder to detect, but it will cause overheating of the coil. It is also possible for these to fail by a wire breaking and an open happening. I would expect that to be much rarer and the consequences to be less catastrophic. | ||
| Thunderstruck |
Thanks for the visual Jim! I ended up ordering a stator from a local shop rather than driving 180 miles round trip (180 / 26 mpg = 7 gallons = $26 and 4 hours). I drained the oil and started taking the primary cover off last night before getting wrapped up in some on-going house projects. Sure enough the oil seemed a little stinkier than usual  . Parts should be here next week. | ||
| Thunderstruck |
I picked up the stator today and was hoping to get it installed tonight 'cause I'm itch'n to go riding this weekend. I ran into a few bumps though. I don't have sockets large enough to pull the primary chain. I'll run out tomorrow to pick those up, but I want to confirm that the crank shaft nut is a 28mm and the clutch shaft nut is a 30mm. This would figure because I already own a 29mm which of course was useless  . I'm also trying to figure out how to pull the pins out of the 46 connector so I can remove the baked stator... any tips? Thanks, Tony | ||
| Jlnance |
Thunder - Good luck with the swap. Can you post a picture of the inside of the connector of the stator? I'm thinking about making a stator tester, and I'd like to find a mating connector. | ||
| Thunderstruck |
Jim, wouldn't my connector look like the one you have pictured in your photo above? I found this thread that has links to where you can purchase the same brand connectors that Buell uses. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/361649.html?1211209021 I'll bet you can find what you are looking for there. So any idea on how this plug comes apart so I can remove the old stator? | ||
| Thunderstruck |
Bill & Jim, Thanks for the assessment and diagnosis. The bike is all back together and seems to be charging. I'm getting 14.5 volts at the battery at idle. Attached is a photo of the toasted stator. 3 of the copper windings were blackened by some welding action going on. Tomorrow I'll go for a much deserved and long overdue "All day ride" (fingers crossed of course)  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Nothing like melted craters to simplify diagnosis | ||
| Jlnance |
It's amazing you can melt something by moving a magnet nearby. Glad you've got it working. |
