| Author | Message | ||
     Palerider |
Thank you, Josh, for the explanation. | ||
| 31hunter |
Hey all, I just removed the cable that connects the solenoid the t.b. I left the noid plugged in figuring the computer will still "see" it and avoid a check engine light. I didn't lock the any other part of the t.b. So far, throttle response is greatly improved. Power wheelies are incredibly easy now. First gear just takes a flick of the wrist. Lots of grins there. Still locking in the sweet spot in second. Also, with the removal of the inner air box, now not only does she perform and respond like a big sport twin should, but she sounds incredible. Huge smile under the brain bucket. | ||
| Kttemplar |
unfortunately, removing the inner airbox also removes the pressurized airbox/ram-air effect. This is not big deal unless you are looking for that extra kick above 80mph. The ram-air/pressurized airbox also adds a few HP in the top end at speed. | ||
| 31hunter |
I understand about the airbox and that removing the inner cover negates the effect of a pressurized airbox. However, I was also thinking, unless the dyno's people have been using are equipped with the hoses and fans to simulate the wind generated at higher speeds and force feed that air into the air intakes, then the rear wheel readings are pretty much engine only without that benefit. Granted, without the inner airbox, you will not attain the higher internal pressures as with it. However, Bernoulli's principle still comes into effect when air flows into the cavity underneath the outer cover with a greatly minimized escape area, it has to slow down, therefore it's internal pressure must rise according to the principle. Mind you, I'm in Miami, Fl, so my performance at sealevel will be different than those at higher elevations with less dense air. Having said all that, I took the bike out for a spin earlier and stretched her legs a bit. She pulls quite a bit harder now than before, and was still pulling up through 149mph on an open stretch when I had to back off the throttle due to coming up on traffic. It felt like she still had plenty more to give before toping out. | ||
| Metalstorm |
with inner airbox, speed = high 160's without inner box speed = low to mid 150's This has been verified by Buell engineers who built and tested the bike and by one of our very own BadWebers who has experienced it himself. However.. if you don't plan on riding past 150 mph (who the hell would unless on a track?) then it doesn't really matter if it's in or out. Unless it effects the AFV. So... Check your AFV if you remove it. I've heard some (not all, just some) bikes have had the AFV's out of whack with the inner box out. If the AFV is still good then No Worries  | ||
| 31hunter |
Thanks for the heads up on the AFV. I really don't plan on riding it all that much at those speeds, at least not with the way the roads are down here. If I plan on a track day, then I'll definitely put it back in, but for now, it's looking like I'm going to keep it off just for the grin factor when I twist the wick. But I'm really enjoying the low end grunt and throttle response with the noid disconnected. | ||
| Helicon |
Alright, I've had the Buell "Noid" eliminator for a few weeks and finally dug into the project. Overall, not very hard to do and really does make a noticeable difference. I would recommend every 1125R owner do it! I notice people have used "safety wire" and others zip ties, and so on ... What is "safety wire" and where can you get it? Is it metal or plastic? I noticed that there are zip ties all around underneath the seat ... and none of them have melted or fallen apart. So for now I just used the zip tie off of the old solenoid until I find out about something better. Oh, and +1000 on what Fresno said about "when trying to put the rubber throttle body gasket back on (which can be a real PITA) don't put it over the throttle bodies first, then try to pull the top side thru the base plate. Rather, set the gasket in place on the base plate, then press the gasket in place over the throttle bodies. MUCH easier" I probably spent a good 20 to 30 minutes trying to get it on until I decided to see if anyone had posted any ideas ... Thanks Fresno for the helpful hint. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Thanks Fresno for the helpful hint. Glad to contribute. Nice to be able to give back some for all the hints and advice gleaned for both the XB and 1125r over the past few years. That's what this place is all about. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
What is "safety wire" and where can you get it? Is it metal or plastic? Safety wire is very thin metal wire, mainly used to to secure vital parts on bike intended for track/race use. Small holes are drilled in strategic places and then the safety wire is twisted (typicaly using a special tool) tight to make sure the piece(s) doesn't vibrate loose (ie, an oil drain plug). I would think it could be obtained at a local specialty store, such as Cyclegear or for sure online. | ||
| Helicon |
Thankyou again Fresno, looks as though the safety/lock wire would be tough to get tight. I even read that it can easily break if you aren't careful while twisting it ... but might be a good option. So I guess my question is ... will using a zip tie be good enough? Its nice and tight and its not going anywhere. As far as the heat goes, like I said above, there are zip ties all over holding things together underneath the seat. I have one of the bikes where the fuel boils and the frame gets uncomfortably hot ... yet all of the zip ties are in perfect condition. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
That is a good point about zip ties being present already in the same area. I mean, we have to snip one off to get the solenoid out. I think time will tell. I plan to go back in after a while to see if my metal zip tie (which is looser than I want) is holding up and possibly replacing it with whatever might be the recommended method. PS--I think that all the 1125r have the potential for boiling fuel....I think it is linked to the length of ride. If you ride her long enough at warm enough temps, the fuel WILL boil--previously I thought mine was immune and indeed it is not. | ||
| Josh_ |
To parapharase my earlier posts, by design the throttle was not locked to the butterfly before - that's how the solenoid worked and why you didn't feel the grip move when it activated. This allows them to operate independently. The solenoid connects directly to the butterfly, allowing it to override the throttle w/o the user knowing. So why are we tying them together if Buell didn't think it was necessary? Also, I buy safety wire in little spools at ACE hardware. 24gauge steel I believe. | ||
| Krassh |
My thinking is the same way. The first time I did the mod months ago I just disconnected the cable and tied it back. At the time I did not lock the throttles. So I finally ordered and received the $6 Buell resistor plug so I decided to lock the throttled while I was in there. While I had everything apart I noticed when I opened the throttles all the way and then manually actuated the part the solenoid used to control the only way I can see it happening is if the spring weakened or failed. Meaning if you do not lock the throttles unless the Spring fails I do not see how locking the throttles would cause a problem. I had the throttles not locked for a couple months with no ill effects. | ||
| Zac4mac |
There were reports of a couple/few throttle bodies that weren't set right and the butterflies would bind. Locking the throttle cams/plates ensures that never happens. Mine are locked, the 'noid cable is gone and I have an ActIntSysErr P_ _ _ _ in Diag Mode. The solenoid tried to kill my throttle a few days ago, glad it didn't. Running great. Z | ||
| Chevycummins |
I found that my "eng" light will come on if running 45mph in second gear and you hammer it. It sets the ActInt code. This is with the cable disconnected and the solenoid plug installed. | ||
| Josh_ |
Chevy - should only happen in 3rd? That is expected behavior with the $6 Buell part. The $90 one from Merkel should not do that. | ||
| Cutty72 |
I've only gotten one Check eng light since disconecting the noid cable, and that was at my track day. No big deal. Also at that same day I had already removed my inner airbox. AFV's were normal, 95F and 100R. As for speed, Redline 5th on the track at 155. I've seen a tick over 160 since i've removed the inner air box, and had room to go yet. With that I don't think it slows me down, and it definatly sounds better! | ||
| Kttemplar |
Josh, Since the solenoid side of the throttle is independent of the actual throttle (hand grip), It can move on its own. When the bike vibrates, this portion of the throttle can move, causing the rpms to fluctuate because the butterfly is moving in the throttle body. "locking" the two mechanisms together does not allow for the solenoid portion to move anymore, reducing some of the air flow fluctuations. When you have the bike apart, messing with the solenoid, hold open the throttle via the hand grip and then pull back on the mechanism that the solenoid is attached to and you will see how easy it is to move. "locking" the two mechanisms together just reduces the number of moving parts and contributing factors to the rpm fluctuations. Just my .02. Mike | ||
| Kttemplar |
"That is expected behavior with the $6 Buell part. The $90 one from Merkel should not do that. I have used both the $6 Buell part and $90 Markel part and they both get the CEL and P---- codes. Mike | ||
| Kttemplar |
I have been running with the solenoid removed for about 4000 miles now using both the $6 Buell part and the $90 Markel part and have only gotten about 4 CELs. It is no big deal. The P---- code is just an informational code and does not affect engine performance at all. Mike | ||
| Josh_ |
>"locking" the two mechanisms together just reduces the number of moving parts and contributing factors to the rpm fluctuations. First, I locked mine and would recommend it, assuming you disconnect the solenoid. Second, do you think the solenoid eliminates the possibility of fluctuation (when connected)? Doesn't the P--- code set the CEL? or are there multiple codes that can be set by this? I'm also looking for a good spray lubricant, I think my throttles should move easier than they do, and unless I let the throttle "snap" closed they don't close all the way. My bike runs amazingly well with the solenoid gone and ThrottleMeisters installed. No vibes, smooth power everywhere... | ||
| Kttemplar |
I believe that regardless of the solenoid being connected or not, the "independent" mechanism can cause airflow fluctuation. I do not know of a really good cable lube, but I really like the product "protect all" and the same company makes a cable lube called "cable life". I have not used the cable lube, but I love protect all and will probably get their cable lube as soon as I get around to it. If you have the 1125R service manual, just use whatever is recommended for lubricating cables in there or ask your local Buell tech. I can not say for sure if the P---- code activates the CEL, I am not a tech, but when the CEL comes on, the P---- code is in the diagnostics. It takes 50 clear cycles for the P---- code to clear itself and it does not show up again until the CEL comes on. The code and light are all a result of the computer telling the solenoid to activate and then seeing that there was no effect of the solenoid activating. The computer is basically telling us "hey something is wrong with the active intake solenoid, because I activated it and nothing happened". Mike (Message edited by kttemplar on August 19, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
The ecu looks at the TPS to verify the solenoid's operation. NO respond = CEL ...No drama concerning engine operations or functions. The only known/current way around all this is to turn this function OFF via the "Race" ecu's programming. Locking the throttle linkage prevents any possible flutter at part throttle and guarantees instant response under rapid transients. (Message edited by slypiranna on August 19, 2008) | ||
| Smoke |
i have been using a silicone spray from autozone for throttle linkage lubrication. bought some cable lube kit some years back and am still using that also lubing the other bike's cables. haven't disconnected the throttle cables yet on the 1125 to lube them. tim | ||
| Two_buells |
I had the Buell "Noid" eliminator plug installed for a few weeks. Today I disconnected the solenoid and the throttle pull is much lighter. Bike runs great. Now there is linkage the tie both butterflies together. What part is everyone tying together?  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
What part is everyone tying together Look at left side of the rear throttle body and also check out the first page of posts to this thread for a reference to some nice pics in another thread....clear as mud? (Message edited by fresnobuell on August 20, 2008) | ||
| Josh_ |
Better yet, rotate the grip to open the throttle, then pull the connection the solenoid was connected to (or just grab the butterfly) - see how you can manually close the throttle w/o affecting the grip? the piece the solenoid connects to (which is the butterfly shaft) can be tied directly to the throttle piece forcing a 1:1 movement. one of these days I should unwrap the parts manual and start using the correct part names... | ||
| Two_buells |
Thanks guys, now I get it. I'll just have to take the air box off again. I didn't have any trouble getting the airbox on. its an easy job. One weird thing though, when I first took off the two screws the hold on the air box, it was like they were under pressure and some air and liquid leaked out of both screws. | ||
| Dtx |
I finally disconnected my "noid" and am happy with the results. The throttle seems lighter and smoother and the bike accelerates with no hesitation. I did test the 3rd gear WOT a few times and did get a check engine light to flash. It was the P---- code. The next time I started the bike, the CEL was off. Overall, this is a good mod. Especially knowing the CEL that you may get is nothing bad. Thanks for everybody's help and comments. | ||
| Ponti1 |
One weird thing though, when I first took off the two screws the hold on the air box, it was like they were under pressure and some air and liquid leaked out of both screws. Same thing here. I believe the screw holes may be open into the frame rails. I smelled the liquid seeped out when the air pressure escaped, and it was most definitely gasoline. |
