| Author | Message | ||
     Tramp |
doesn't work like that, fvb. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
What doesnt work like that? Can you be more specific | ||
| Swampy |
Tramp, You have mail. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Madduck with the two-handed slam over the entire defense -- well done sir! "The facts Mam, just the facts." Answer: Karl Rove Question: Who is the second coming of Grigori Rasputin ZZZZZing -- we're all tied up now  | ||
| Brumbear |
I believe JFK also started welfare I got issues with that | ||
| Bigdaddy |
We can't hang welfare on JFK, well, we can but it wouldn't be accurate. Welfare's roots go back to before the Great Depression and also before FDR's New Deal. The New Deal did make it bloat and expand. | ||
| M2nc |
We don't HAVE the money to do this, just as we haven't the troops with which to play world cop. I totally agree with this comment. The world does not want us to be this either, so lets comply. As for Georgia, we are going in the wrong direction here. We should play a bit part supporting EU actions only. This will fuel Russia to hold their ground because the US is now stepping so obviously in it. I do not buy the comment that Russians through out the nation have a better standard of living than us. Step away from the major urban centers and Russia is still a third world country. They have no where near the GDP of any of the G7 countries let alone the US. The US GDP is 80% of the entire EU. Japan is second in the world at only 30% of the US. Russia is currently 11th at less than 10% of the US GDP. I know Russia is a growing economy, leading the G8 at five times the growth rate of the US currently, but still far from catching the US. They were allowed to join the G7 to appease them as a military power not an economic power. Our unemployment rate is half of most EU nations and a tenth of Russia's. 8% of America's GDP invested in defense bankrupted the Soviets in the 1980s. I know we are not the only game in town anymore, with the EU now the bigger player. But I for one do not see this as a bad thing. We just need to adjust US foreign policy. I would like to see a period of American Isolationism. | ||
| Aesquire |
My first thought was that Russia was the aggressor. Russia saying it was the other guy, & they are just protecting Russian citizens, has zero credibility. Why? Because with the past history of the Soviet Union, they lied about everything, from why they invaded their neighbors to what the population of their own country was. Russia is NOT the Soviet Union. The guy who is now ruler for life IS a guy who started his political life as a political policeman for the Soviet state. It was an evil empire. Just as a president who was head of the CIA is a bit scary, a ruler without limits who was KGB is hardcore scary. Georgia has had endless issues with their wannabe region. Russia has been butting heads since the fall of the Soviet. They also are p'o'ed that Georgia can't control the Chechyan rebels who pass though & base in Georgia. I don't know who started this. The Prez. of Georgia seems a nice guy. I pretty much assume anti zionist rhetoric shows a mind filled with propaganda. Not that I'm for zionism, but folk who blame Israel for all the worlds wrongs and despite an otherwise liberal ( I use the word in the old school meaning ) attitude are loathe to condemn Islamic slavery, sexism & aggression have issues best addressed by Prozac. the article above by Eugene R. Berry raises the questions... If Israel has a good reputation for military training, why wouldn't you want to hire their trainers? ( I think they had a rude awakening in Lebanon, having grown used to the poor quality of the perpetual enemies. Little things like "dig in when you camp because artillery ruins your sleep" fell out of use when your enemy usually shoots randomly, and preferably towards unarmed civilians. ) If Russia's attack on Georgia is meant to keep us from attacking Iran, shouldn't we attack Iran? | ||
| Aesquire |
...inside look at Jamie Lynn Spears' birthmark...  So true! Throw in "Sarah Michelle Geller nude shots about to be posted on this website" and the invading armies are safe from all the geeks who will miss the tanks rolling by outside. | ||
| Lledlaw |
... curve ball! Q. What causing the global economic slow down? Q. If the events in Georgia are primarily about oil then why is the oil price dropping, albeit very slowing in a time of conflict (Georgia, Iraq, possible sanction of Iran)? Q. And why is the dollar strengthening? Great thread by the way and some very informed guys out there. (Message edited by lledlaw on August 14, 2008) | ||
| Aesquire |
1. the price of oil, food, steel etc. The 3rd world is growing in population & wealth. Insert rant about old Europe & the E.U. trying a command economy. It doesn't work. 2. not oil.... power! oil is just the means. Why price dropping? A buddy who is a stock market junkie tells me that China has stopped a hoarding/mass buy cycle that they were doing to build up to & be SURE they had power for the Olympics. Think... how much steel is in the "Birds Nest" stadium? 3. American productivity pulls the $ up. Why did it go down may be a better question. Who got rich? Soros? China? ( not to pick on the worlds largest murderous dictatorship, but China actually has the muscle to manipulate the money markets, simply by buying or selling greenbacks. Since so much of the Chinese economy is owned by cousins & nephews of Party leaders, manipulation is possible in a way that would not work in America. ) Our market on the other hand is run by Panic & Greed. M2nc... every time that isolationism is tried, the world economy goes to heck, a war breaks out, & we have to play catch up to pick up the pieces. It always costs American lives. Pity, since I understand the desire to let those dang Europeans hash it out & avoid the pain. Europe seems a festering boil of resentments, revenge & aggression. Don't forget, we are the wretched refuse. Our relatives left..... | ||
| Tramp |
PLEASE name one instance in which the US has actually followed a protocol of isolationism in the past 60 years What? no oil? | ||
| Aesquire |
Ha! When have we EVER actually followed a protocol? | ||
| Tm74 |
Russia: 'Forget' Georgian territorial integrity | ||
| Cityxslicker |
when have we stayed out of stuff just to be out ?.... openly we didnt enter WWII until the December 7th incident. There was 7 years of Nazi aggression, expansion and control that we did 'nothing' We also didnt get involved in the 1905 Russian rebellion, despite our economic interests in the country. | ||
| Tramp |
Cityslicker- Did you READ my question? Did you note the last two words in my posted question? Aesquire- Nice sidestep...now, how about an answer to my question? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
We are a greedy capitalist economy. Anybody that tells you that our military/political/industrial machine is not powered, lubed and fueled by oil, gold, diamonds, hard currency is fooling themselves. Ok Darfur. But you are right, no oil, no care. | ||
| Aesquire |
seriously, 60 years? that's like Al Gore not mentioning any time before 1300 to make temp. comparisons. Before WW1... Before WW2... Korea, not so much isolationist, but unprepared, in the short peace between wars, sure. Don't be silly. We could no more 1)isolate from the worlds problems than 2) have the will to conquer it. The first can't happen, the second won't, because we won't. Pity.  What cal. Rem? Polymer tips? Putin doesn't have to invade the U.S., so we miss our chance to play "Red Dawn".... There are more than enough state worshipper types here to get the same kind of fascist results.  (Message edited by aesquire on August 14, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
So, now, instead of answering the question, you choose to ridicule it, while adding a measure of irrelevant, partisan opinion. Again, you didn't answer the question. Why do you feel it's the US' job to "...have the will to conquer..." "...the worlds (sic) problems..."? Do you really believe it's incumbent on the already-squeezed American taxpayer to solve every other banana republic's problems? Not sure why you'd think it's a pity that this republic won't solve the world's problems. Suggesting that we should is like suggesting that an injured, unemployed person (which is, in essence, what we are, at this moment, whether or not you choose to admit it) make a sizeable donation to an obscure charity with murky accounting principles. You're asking a weakened republic,(America) already wildly deep in debt, to pay into this bottomless world welfare system. Forget it. America has her own wounds to lick, right now. Time for the rest of the world to work it out amongst themselves. American gave at the office, already, handsomely. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Here is a conspiracy theory... 1) Assume Russia is so steeped in such powerful organized crime and ex KGB, that it is virtually impossible to tell where the one ends and the others begins. They are a big organic entity. 2) Assume that the this "thing" wanted Georgia for the ports... historically, strategically, and financially. 3) Said KGB / Organized crime does in Georgia what they do so well... convince and manipulate the local government that this is the "right moment" to grab control from their rogue territory. Either do this subvertly by infiltration, or overtly by organized crime promising that they have an "in" in the Russian government, and can guarentee the Russians won't respond. 4) The "re-seize" control of the "rogue cities" begins, and Georgia walks *right* into the trap. 5) Russia responds to the "invasion", and just keeps invading. Oops! they say, did we accidentally invade the whole country? Oh, my bad... too late now, so sad. It would have been a nice play, and seems like the kind of thing organized crime and ex KGB (or not so ex) could pull off beautifully by playing Georgian leadership with all the normal tricks (greed, graft, vice, blackmail, threats, and violence). Or Georgian leadership could have been just really, really, really stupid. And the Russians could as a result have been really mad. You never know... | ||
| Aesquire |
Rep... That could be it. Wouldn't surprise me. Tramp, You seem to misunderstand. I Don't want America to Conquer the world. We did that & gave it back. We are unsuited for the Imperial role. I'm proud of that. Not sure why you'd think it's a pity that this republic won't solve the world's problems. No...it's a pity we can't. We don't have the will to conquer, which I think is good. I'd like to keep it that way. The hard part is not losing that in the face of religious war & partisan politics. ...pay into this bottomless world welfare system ^&%$$*( NO! I'm against that completely. Good point, wrong target. I ridicule the question because it has only the answer you want. I don't see how my response is partisan? Al Gore lies to make his fortune grow. He sells green indulgences and does the numbers to suit his wants. It's like the car ad's where they say the "Fracus" is the #1 car in it's group. A group of cars called "Fracus". We never follow a protocol. Drives everyone nuts. America has her own wounds to lick, right now. we differ in attitude. Buck up hombre. Time for the rest of the world to work it out amongst themselves. Don't we wish! American gave at the office, already, handsomely. Right on! | ||
| Court |
I was sorry to hear that Georgia was invaded but apparently it's not too bad. I called friends in Atlanta and they were unaware and I see that President Bush in on vacation in Crawford, TX for 2 weeks and Obama is body surfing. Lee Iacocca was on to something. . . . | ||
| Tm74 |
 Now Poland, on the other hand, may not get off so easy. Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles | ||
| Thumper74 |
Thats not funny. Russia just can't go around doing what they want to smaller countries... Oh wait... nevermind... I find it disturbing that Hunt for Red October AND The Day After were both on cable last night. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Poland is a member of NATO and thus, by treaty, entitled to the protections afforded to member states. Russia also made it known they might strengthen ties with Cuba and refuel nuclear-capable bombers on the island. | ||
| Ftd |
George Will column on this crisis/situation: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/ european_war_enters_the_presid.html | ||
| Cityxslicker |
you can amp up your paranoia when Wag the Dog and Red Dawn are on as a double feature  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I recently bought Red Dawn for my DVD collection. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/08/barry_the_u nready_and_putin_th.html http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/08/15/georgia-putins -biggest-mistake-so-far/ http://www.mcclatchydc.com/255/story/47631.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402982,00.html http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NGZkZDEzZDhkN zQ1ZWMwNmE0MGNmYzBjNjI5Nzc2YjQ= A variety of views. I don't know if this will be the Berlin Airlift or the Sudetenland. The Berlin Airlift was a triumph of the U.S. Air Force and the NCA, with the desire to not fight, unless needed, and the will to not give in...even if war was needed. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
For the Berlin airlift to have been truly successful, there would not have been a wall there for over four decades. |
