| Author | Message | ||
     Stealthfighter |
"The only time(s) that they've raced that I know of, 1125R racers have soundly beaten the RC8... Conventional Brembo front brakes work well, but they hinder handling by increasing the unsprung mass of the front wheel/brake/fork assembly..." and the 1125R was beaten by a 130HP BMW HP2 with this freaky "Telelever", heavy cardan drive, under-seat muffler and ... yes, conventional Brembo Monoblocs! you see, the rider makes the difference! ride a 1190 RC8 and you will see that its handling is easier. and if you really want low unsprung weight you have to use forged magnesium-wheels and carbon-ceramic-composite brakes like this:  just 676 g weights a 320 mm disc! (Message edited by stealthfighter on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Clarkjw |
Don't hate the RC8 just cause it's not a Buell Uly. That bike looks great (unlike the 1125R), makes sick power, and apparently handles well on the race track. Not everyone is a backroad dirt warrior. As far as brakes, if you want to you can convert any front end to a ZTL. If the RC8 weren't sooo damn expensive to americans, I woulda purchased one. This is coming from someone who loves his XB9R. Buell could benefit from an italian stylist, kevin drummer, and more carbon fiber/titanium. [B]Maybe they are saving the goods for the 1200RR =) Which, by rough estimates could make 162HP and 94 ft/lbs if bored out and given a good exhaust.[/B] (Message edited by clarkjw on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Chameleon |
Just shows that everyone has different tastes and likes. I dislike the RC8 styling and very much like the styling of the 1125R which is one reason why I bought mine. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
I think the Rc8 looks like it was designed by an origami artist with all those sharp lines, and doesn't look very comfortable to ride. The comfort of the 1125r is one of things that makes me want one. The 1125r and RC8 have one big thing in common- love it or hate it styling. | ||
| Black_snowman |
"Just shows that everyone has different tastes and likes." - Chameleon Ya, every time someone complains about the lack of a fairing on the 1125R I scratch my head. I think it makes it look fat and plain. If I were to ever race one, I'd just get a belly pan and call it good for body work. However I do like the RC8 as a package. I've always liked the aggressiveness of the sharp line styles. | ||
| Stealthfighter |
"...I think the Rc8 looks like it was designed by an origami artist with all those sharp lines, and doesn't look very comfortable to ride..." your "origami artist" is the austrian KISKA Design Studio with a great reputation. i call it "genuine stealthfighter design"!  and believe me - the RC8 is very comfortable to ride for a sportsbike. you can adjust the position of the footpegs, the seat height and you can lift up the handlebars! | ||
| Spectrum |
the rider makes the difference! I love reading these internet pissing contests. I really don't have an opinion either way on this one, but couldn't help myself. Following your logic: I guess there just hasn't been anyone that could ride worth a crap on an RC8 when it was up against an 1125R.  All kidding aside, I do however agree with this statement for the most part. I also think the RC8 is an awesome piece of engineering. I however do not care for the looks either. The RC8 looks a little too much like a transformer robot toy for my taste. As a matter of fact, I dislike the looks so much, if this was a KTM forum I'd be Brad!  | ||
| P_squared |
Bryan, thanks for making me spew coffee outta my nose & onto my monitor! | ||
| Oddball |
Ok, we must interrogate one who has ridden both. Jeremy McWilliams It will need to be a long interrogation with dual good cop bad cop team representing both 1125R & RC8. For the blinding light i recommend the member's Uly with deathray headlights. That should work. Now the members of each opposing Good-Cop Bad-Cop Team I leave to all of you.      Now lets settle this.... Well, at least until the next unkind word is exchanged about one make or the other.  We all know arguments are never over on the net. They go into syndication. | ||
| Blake |
Yes, the rider certainly does make a difference. The 1125R is proving itself on the race track against some excellent competition, even against IL4 superbikes having 40+ more RWHP. I'd like to see any other near stock liter class twin do the same. Canadian Superbike, first race of the year and the first time out for the team, a podium. That is the kind of result that speaks volumes for the excellent handling and braking performance of the 1125R. It's not some obscure race or one that was in the wet, it was a national level race with some very good competition. | ||
| Blake |
"I guess there just hasn't been anyone that could ride worth a crap on an RC8 when it was up against an 1125R." Apparently the RC8 riders may suffer the same fate as so many Ducati and other riders on the track when confronted by the Buells, faceshield fogging, or didn't get enough sleep, or not feeling well, or...  | ||
| C4bird |
Bryan, that was hilarious.  I never knew cola burned so bad when it comes out my nose... | ||
| Stealthfighter |
the main reason why successful teams like Buell Racing Hannover and Buell Racing Bonn use 2-disc-brakes is, that the ZTL/ZTL2 has overheating problems on the race track.    i found an interesting dyno chart in the web:  | ||
| Jens |
Julius Ilmberger was testride the XBORG XB Bike with ZTL² Brake in Oschersleben on the Buelltrackday 2007 with my brakesetup. His clear statement was: One of the best brakes I´ve ever ridden and (of course)no fading or overheating problems. Proof this. Good on the KTM is the austrian engine and the underengine exhaust, .......... but here also, the 1125 is in many details the better bike. We have an 1125R complete in pieces and I can declare my greatest respect about the engineerwork BMC have done with this bike. It really sucks that people with disputable backround talking about things they even not understanded how they work. Jens | ||
| Stealthfighter |
hi jens, my tall "swedish" friend, why julius is not using the brake setup of the XBORG racer? why does volker not use the ZTL2? why do different people WITH professional background say, that the ZTL is not the benchmark? whats with the tortuous and colorful brake disks? i agree with you that the 1125 is a competitive (but ugly in stock version) bike. but is it in the sum of its properties the better sportbike? best regards from the sucker!  | ||
| Jens |
Julius Ilmberger dont use the ZTL on his racebike, because he is the owner of SICOM, a manufacturer of great brakesystems. His 1125R racebike is also there to promote parts, like the carbonbodyparts, for his own company. Good that he is manufacturing no saddlebags.... (-: Julius was at the 1125R testrides in Spain and at the this year 1000Km of Hockenheim race with the stock ZTL brake of the 1125R very happy. Steve Crevier compete in the CDN SB series with the IL4s with their suppaduppa radials using the single Buell ZTL, like other Teams in Europe and USA. The ZTL took last year on the XBRR a championship in France, etc. etc. Your statement is wrong. Jens | ||
| Stealthfighter |
of course i know that julius´ 1125R is also a promo bike. but if the ZTL has only advantages, why he does´nt make a SICOM single disc for the buell? he´s got the know how to do that. and it would be much easier and cheaper because you don´t have to change the complete front end incl. the front wheel and the caliper... what´s in your opinion the reason that a manufacturer like Brembo with such great reputation does´nt offer a ZTL-like system? Are they to blind to see? | ||
| Jens |
Please use the searchfunction of the forum, I got enough from these useless ZTL discussions in the last years. I posted my statement only because your argument: but Ilmberger uses... is wrong. Jens | ||
| Xl1200r |
Personally, I think it's just fine that they choose to use a different brake for race applications. Erik has said himself that he tried to build the best STREET bikes, not race bikes. I think the ZTL is a great option for street bikes where you have to contend with uneven road surfaces, bumps and such much more than you would on a racetrack. This is where the reduced unsprung weight shines - when the unsprung has to do a lot of moving. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That made me laugh! Thanks!  | ||
| Madav8tr |
I wonder why if the KTM is so great then why aren't you on that board singing it's praises instead of a Buell board? They obviously sell them where you are at(as opposed to here) and if it's what you want, then that's what you need to buy. Most of us don't share your same view of how great the RC8 looks or performs. Personally, I think it's ugly and I would think the same even if it were designed by Leonardo DaVinci. Kiska hardly shares the same reputation as Pininfarina so bragging about the Kiska designing the bike really isn't saying much. Also, as for Power? The spec sheet shows it being less than 5hp more at the crank than the Buell. | ||
| Stealthfighter |
how about a little bit of tolerance? remember this posting: "...You won't find another liter class twin cylinder sportbike with better/wider powerband characteristics..." all i want to say is that its not true! you can believe, i´m a big buell fan and i really like erik´s different view on things. but i´m also a motorcycle fan. so whats the problem when i´m thinking that another bike than a buell is the better package? why should i go to another board to say that? i have my opinion and you have yours - thats okay for me. | ||
| Elvis |
Since we're talking about the 1125CR, shouldn't we be comparing to the Super-Duke rather than the RC8?   | ||
| Stealthfighter |
the SuperDuke is a cool bike. but i don´t like the thin swingarm and the under seat exhaust. a muffler has to be under the engine! maybe we will see next year the 1190 RC8 Venom:  | ||
| Elvis |
It seems like KTM could do something similar to Buell and make a "naked" version of the RC8, but the Super-duke is still a fairly new design, and I suspect they'll maintain the two, unique bikes (and probably charge a good price premium for the higher performing RC8) for a while. Given a choice between an 1125R and RC8 (assuming similar pricing) I'd have a hard time choosing, but given a choice between the 1125CR and Super-Duke, I like the 1125CR a good bit more in most ways. Maybe the 1125CR will force KTM to produce a higher performing version of the Super-Duke even if that hadn't been their intention. It will also be interesting to see if Ducati does anything with the S4. The 1125CR should have the performance upper hand on both the Super-Duke and S4 . . . at least until newer models come out. | ||
| Stealthfighter |
"...Maybe the 1125CR will force KTM to produce a higher performing version of the Super-Duke even if that hadn't been their intention..." oh, there is the 990 SuperDuke R available! 97 kW (130HP), 102 Nm (75.2 lb.ft), 200 kg (440.9 lb) incl. full fuel tank.  so, i have another 1125CR version for you:  (Message edited by stealthfighter on July 31, 2008) (Message edited by stealthfighter on July 31, 2008) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
you can believe, i´m a big buell fan and i really like erik´s different view on things Hmmm.sounds eerily familiar to another pseudo-Buell fan... | ||
| Stealthfighter |
no way. i own my XB since october 2003 and i love it like i did at the first day! is it your opinion that a real Buell fan should´nt say critical words? or is it the fact that i also like other bikes like the KTM? | ||
| Madav8tr |
Critical? You do nothing but note the shortcomings of the bike in the part of the forum that is dedicated to it. That's not "saying critical words" that's trolling. You don't care for the new Buell, we get it, move back to the forum dedicated to the Buell you are fond of, the XB series. That said, your photoshop skills are impressive. | ||
| Brad1445 |
Stealth, Many here think love with a bike should be monogamous. Thats is sad and foolish as no one bike does it all. A true enthusiast gets it. Heck, even tonight in a post from a anonymous still took time to bash another brand, in that case triumph. And it only takes one step out side the 1125 Reality Distortion field to get you labeled a traitor. one bad point of view washes away years of Buell loyalty and selling the brand to others. Its a lot like McCarthyism. As much as I still love Buell handing , belt drive ect, I'm still the bad guy because I can envision an even better product just buy simply modifying the pods so that the length, width, shape angels ANYTHING matched the styling of the rest of the bike. Keep Hope Alive. The Rotax engine deserved its own wrapper to match its performance Buell could grow more from just a few people that have the love an passion, that are aware of current competition and changing customer demands far more beneficial than 10,000 yes men rubber stamping everything. You can never go wrong with the truth. |
