| Author | Message | ||
     Whodom |
The "next generation XB" thread brings up something I've really wondered- why is Buell so dang secretive (or at least they seem to be) about what they're working on? It seems like the bike mags manage to turn up lots of spy shots or at least info on new bikes that other manufacturers are thinking about or working on. All we had prior to the XB12 release was a lot of wild speculation. Maybe there are valid business reasons for keeping this stuff completely under wraps, but it does seem like it would be worthwhile to get some kind of feedback on what they're considering producing in the future by letting some information out. Any comments? | ||
| Aesquire |
The security let's them do a couple of things. They can effectively coordinate with H-D on product releases, very important, since H-D wants to sell off some 100th year bikes before the 2004's hit the showroom. Who in his right mind would buy a 2003 sportster, fancy tank badge or not, when they know the 2004 model (with a Buell derived engine and rubber mounts) will be in the showroom in November?? Without months of speculation to dull the impact, the European Moto mags had a field day with the XB12's and press response was very good. More surprise, more hype! Also, not least of all, the whole Buell community has been on edge, waiting for the "Mr. Fusion" powered bike to come out! (or was that V-Rod powered? I forget) What they got instead, was a machine that puts out more ponies than any production street air cooled H-D ever, that handles like a Jedi Knight on acid, and has cool uber-paint on the wheels. (dont't forget the wheels!) Of course, It's not good enough for some, and Nallin Racing is no doubt ready to help those poor unfortunate speed freaks. (yeah!) | ||
| Sarodude |
Well, they don't make the 883R anymore. I'd hapily buy that 03 instead of any of the 04 Sporties - especially since the Sporty has TOTALLY died. Off topic. Sorry. -Saro | ||
| Court |
>>>Maybe there are valid business reasons There are. They are heightened with regard to Buell. | ||
| Daves |
That's like asking, why don't you play poker with all your cards face up on the table. It is the factory's job(and their job depends on it)to keep future projects under wraps until it's ready to be introduced to the public. Hey Saro, I have 1 XL883R left, you want one? Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| 99buellx1 |
when they know the 2004 model (with a Buell derived engine and rubber mounts) will be in the showroom in November?? psst, there already in showrooms, had 'em for a couple weeks now. Craig  | ||
| Mikej |
Competitive edge coupled with not shooting yourself in the foot. Hugh, your profile says you're a mechanical engineer, I'll assume you're working on new products for some company. Let's say you want to help the company out by getting public feedback on some design you're working on, so you build a prototype, take it to the local shopping mall, and solicit public feedback. Do you think your company will be pleased with this? Seriously, think about it relative to your own occupation. Sidestep into model railroading if you want which is a very competitive business from a manufacturer's standpoint. I know someone who sidejobbed at a small manufacturer of scale model train parts, and they were extremely secretive about new product offerings right up to the unveiling at trade shows and major train enthusiast shows where they would then and only then put the new products into public view, and where their competitors would immediately begin asking for samples to go reverse engineer from. The same sort of thing happens even closer to us here with Buells and Buell products. Business is war, and competitors are always looking for an edge to generate new business and ways to keep their equipment running. A few years ago I was privileged to get to go on a special tour (thanks to Paul in Oz) of the Buell design facility. And even though we were told we could talk about anything we saw while on the tour if you were somewhat knowledgeable about some things it was possible to see things directly and indirectly that probably shouldn't be revealed. I was able to pick up on a few things when we were in the engineering offices that I still haven't mentioned to anyone and have yet to see in product form. Not that I was any more observant than the other few people on the tour, it's just that a few things stood out due to my background in industry and what I notice. At a train yard I may see a train and then notice it is steam powered, you may be standing right next to me and see a thousand things that I could look at and not recognize as significant but in reality are very significant. From software to file structure to product catalogs to reference books to notepads to stuff on walls or desktops, any item may or may not be significant to a competitor. As I learned in an indirect field, any info can be used to advantage, and if you want to maintain a competitive advantage then perhaps a little secrecy is a good thing. And as far as getting some feedback on upcoming products goes, they get plenty of it from a variety of sources. Any company that doesn't solicit at least a little unbiased objective feedback prior to product release is often unwise and foolish, and that's a quick road to failure in this day and age. As a side note, indirectly relative to the secrecy issue, I'm watching one company now which will probably be out of business in one to five years. There are a variety of reasons for my believing this, but the secrecy game is a major component of it and possibly not in the way you are thinking. | ||
| Ara |
Secrecy heightens public interest, and (the factory hopes) profitability. Remember "Who Shot J.R.?" Court, what did you have reference to? | ||
| Sarodude |
Daves- I probably shoulda mentioned the monetary conditions also.  No new toys for a while - though if I was gonna do a Fly 'n Ride, you would certainly come to mind! -Saro | ||
| Spiderman |
Another thing you have to remember also is, about 70% (according to people I have talked to) of the stuff Buell does or works on will never see the consumer or production. So rather than say Yes we are working on th XB11's with a V-rod motor and then the thing is side canned cause of EPA or that it just isn't possible (calm down it is just an exaple) you wont have a bunch of pissed off Buell riders or customers. | ||
| Phillyblast |
Triumph cans Hayabusa rival 8 Oct 2003 MCN has learnt that Triumph has scrapped its project to build the first genuine 200mph production motorcycle. For last three years the British factory has been developing a 1300cc hypersport bike to rival the Suzuki Hayabusa and Kawasaki ZX-12R and the company intended it to be the first production machine to break the 200mph barrier. But MCN has learnt that after calling in industry consultants Triumph has decided that with the limited production capacity at its Hinckley factory the bike would not have been a profitable proposition. And with the market for the 180bhp superbike appearing to be in decline as well the company decided to cut its losses despite having already invested about £4 million. MCN spotted the bike undergoing tests at the start of September and it appeared to be almost ready for production, but all but one of the seven prototypes have now been destroyed with the remaining bike going to Triumph’s private museum. Saw this on MO today. Along with some dissapointed comments. Kinda explains the secrecy, doesn't it? You can't get dissapointed if you never knew about it. | ||
| Whodom |
Thanks for the comments. I can definitely understand why they wouldn't want to let info on the XB12's leak out while they were trying to sell XB9's. It just seems to me some occasional long range "hints" would help generate more interest in the brand. The story on the Triumph hyper-bike is a good example. Maybe this ticked some people off, but I'll bet it got some riders looking at Triumph who had never looked before. I guess it just boils down to the fact that I sure wish I could spend a day looking around in Buell's design office!  | ||
| Spiderman |
>>>>can't get dissapointed if you never knew about it. Spidey nails it again! BOOO YA | ||
| Darthane |
The same reasons car manufacturers or any producer of other large consumer items are secretive. You have to deal with industrial espionage, hype, rumor mills, etc. And there is a definite financial aspect. "Secrecy heightens public interest, and (the factory hopes) profitability." <~~Ara Example: I did a lot of prototype work on the 2005 Mustangs. Obviously this is a flagship product for Ford. Delphi (whom I didn't work for at the time but do now) is the wiring source for it. I found it really amusing to read and listen to the hype surrounding the car (for the record, I hate Mustangs). Over the past two years it's become almost tangible as everyone from spoiled rich kids to die-hard 'stangers waited eagerly for it to hit showrooms in late 2004. Then some jackass decided he was going to ignore his confidentiality statements and take hordes of pictures of it, inside and out, and post them on the web. POOF! The magic's gone. They're already predicting less initial and overall sales of the car due to it, which means lots of companies lose lots of money, and in turn people lose jobs. All because one fool just couldn't wait to spread illegal photos. Bryan | ||
| José_quiñones |
 Remember the VROD spy shots? It didn't seem to hurt sales much, especially in Europe, where it is HD's best selling model. By the way, if you want hints as to what Buell, Harley-Davidson and other bike manufacturers are up to, the U.S. Patent Office Website is an interesting place to visit if you have the time. Do a patent search using the assignee name "Buell" and see what you find. | ||
| Dynarider |
All we had prior to the XB12 release was a lot of wild speculation. Wrong, I told you it was coming out. Thats money in the bank.  | ||
| Whodom |
Hey, the patent search was a cool idea. Check out this link for a list of the patents with Buell listed as the "assignee": http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml% 2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=0&p=1&f=S&l=50&Query=AN%2F%28Buell%29&d=ptxt One that caught my eye is the one for "Motorcycle frame having integral fuel storage unit and break-away steering head"- the steering head is designed to break off in the event of a severe impact. You can see where this works as designed in the photos of that hellacious XB9S wreck somebody posted earlier in the week. | ||
| Court |
I assure you that many folks KNEW it worked prior to the first XB ever being built. There were hundreds of XB bucks on sleds sacrificed at negative G loads you'd never be able to replicate. I haven't read the patent write up but the system is much more than "just" fuel in the frame. I assume I am not the only one who noted the lack of fluids in the photos of the XB vs. fire plug accident? The integrity of the systems was a bit of design hard work, development and with some international genius spinkled on top. SIDE NOTE: Since you asked....someone took me to task in a recent article about referring to a "fire plug". Once I again, albiet bordering on a vain inculcation, I maintain my position. In the "olden days" the public water system consisted of wood pipes. When there was a fire, the fire crews responding sawed into the local water main to tap the water supply. Following the fire, they would repair the hole with a ....<<feel free to take a guess here>>...FIRE PLUG. Maps were kept of where these "plugs" were for future use. Eventually it dawned on someone to reapir the hole by simply placing a valve (hydrant) atop where the hole was. Even as the hydrant came into being the term "fire plug" lingered Sorry... Anyway there is much more to the XB frame than meets the eye and there is much more to the XB's ability to sacrifice energy in a predictable manner than the frame. Kinda neat, after years of folks hypothesizing about the arrival of the day this COULD be done, to see Erik Buell actually building it and selling it the the public whilst the "thinkers" still think and scratch their collective asses. Do I sound bitter?  Ride safe, lean much and smile more.... Court | ||
| Buckinfubba |
its the same as "why don't women walk around naked all day for us guys to look at" aahhhhh in the words of carly simon....anticapation!!! I hope I never lose my wonderment. Keeps me alive | ||
| Mikej |
Darthane, You do the wiring? Using I-DEAS Harness module? I've probably downloaded some of your stuff here.  Currently working on 2006 stuff (non-Mustang) fitting our parts into them, body profiles are different to work with. Need to take Harness training for occasional modeling. And, no, I will not slip someone profiles of new models. I won't even say what models we support. | ||
| Mikej |
ya gots to be real carefull when doing Patent searches as you never know what you'll trip over, and yes the name "Buell" does appear in it. I think I'll go get a cup of coffee and think about something else for awhile. | ||
| Darthane |
Mikej, I think we've gone over this before some time ago. I don't do I-DEAS personally (though I have some experience with it). I am currently in the systems side of things, so I deal more with logical schematics and total-car wiring strategy. I'm going to Japan for a new prototype project soon (the 17th), and will be there for seven months. Should be a very interesting trip, though I'm definitely gonna miss my Firebolt while I'm gone! Bryan {edit - and that link you posted is wrong. Just...plain...wrong...} edited by darthane on October 09, 2003 | ||
| Court |
To ensure that, at not point in the future, TEAM ELVES is not accused of being "secretive", I will publicalyl proclaim that the emmisary of the Team Elves International Expeditionary Force leaves JFK airport at 11:15 AM this morning enroute to do advance work for what could be, just could be, the most spectacular TEO (Team Elves Outting) to date. Someone retain this and keep track of it so, way on down the road, you can say, "I remember hearing something about that". End of Encrypted Message | ||
| Glitch |
just could be, the most spectacular TEO (Team Elves Outting) to date Wish I could be an active part. My bestest wishes go with all the team in all their attempts. Ain't no secret that the Elves are doing things I can only dream about... | ||
| Mikej |
Bryan, Yeah, I think we did but I claim brain fade. Sorry about the link. And take a camera to Japan with you and try to get some pics of those modified Buells over there. Their web sites are a little hard to navigate on but they're doing neat stuff with their bikes. And if you want an assignment to report back on see if you can find out what Buell prices are like there in the used market. Might be something fun to research. Have fun, and if the Sushi is still moving - cook it. | ||
| Court |
Glitch: Good news---you are PART of it just by virture of BEING here! Early on it was decided that all Elves enjoy EQUAL status. Brag to your hearts content....the success has been due to the wonderful things that happens when LOTS of passionate folks act in concert...that includes YOU. Court | ||
| Mikej |
"all Elves enjoy EQUAL status. " Uh, that would not be an accurate statement. Anyway, I got stuff to take care of elsewhere, back to the battle here internally. |
