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Trojan
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 11:51 am: | 
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dual disc brakes gone (replace with Buell 5 stars and ZTL perimeter braking)
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
The brakes on the XR1200 are one of the best parts of the bike, have loads of feel and work really really well! The ZTL would overheat and would undoubtdely struggle to cope with the stock weight of the XR.
Upgrading the stock brakes with braided brake lines and mybe fully floating discs would be enough for pretty much anyone, and combined with a weight reduction would be a big improvement on what is already a good system.
Things that DO need to be addressed are ridiculously hard rear suspension settings,even on the softest available preload).
Worst parts of the bike, and things that I cannot believe didn't get mentioned in the 2 year + gestation period (So are unforgiveable), are:
1. The ridiculously fiddly, and cheap, seat release mechanism for taking the rider seat off. There are two small moulded plastic tabs under the seat that fit into slots in the tail unit and click into place. To remove the seat you have to push these two tabs inwards and lift the front of the seat. Easy? If only....for a start, to reach the tabs there is only enough room to put your hand in 'backwards, so you are pressing against the tabs with the back of your fingers. You have to do this with both hands on opposite sides of the frame at the same time, hence two hands needed and various yoga positions. When you eventually get both tabs pressed inwards with sufficient force to release the seat you suddenly realise that your third hand has not evolved in time to actually lift the seat at the same time, so are reduced to calling for assistance whilst kneeling on the garage floor in some strange praying mantis pose so hoping that someone else will come and assist! Doing that at the side of the road to get at a basic tool kit or waterproofs would be impossible.
Whoever designed it has obviously never studied a seat release mechanism on any other bike before, and could learn a lot just by studying the XB12R seat as a lesson in simplicity and ease of use.
2. The right side grip/brake lever/mirror are too close together to be able to operate the throttle and cover the front brake at the same time whilst wearing gloves (proper race type motorcycle gloves, not fingerless Harley Bro' offerings!). Either the development team have unfeasably small and dainty hands (Jay Springsteen?) or the development bikes were slightly different to the production models. Nothing that a new master cylinder and lever won't sort out, but not great .
Overall it is a fun bike, and although I only rode ours for a short while before taking it to pieces, it didn't fail to impress 
The intake valve gives loads of intake noise, and the engine is really willing to rev (just like a Buell) and is completely lacking in Potato Potato Harleyness.
I sold my old Sportster in 1997 when Buell first hit the UK market, simply because it didn't go fast enough and didn't want to stop at all. I always said that if they put a Buell engine in a Sportster chassis they would be onto a winner, and although they have taken 11 years to do it they certainly have a winner on their hands
The XR1200 may not be a direct competitor to the XB in terms of power/weight, but it will vie for the same customers, and will also offer a very good alternative to someone looking for a 'sporty' naked bike such as the XJR1300, ZRX1200, Yamaha MT01, Guzzi Griso etc.
If you are in any doubt over the sales future of this model, here is an interesting aside. I have had more enquiries for XR1200 aftermarket parts since it was launched here last week than I have for 1125R parts from UK owners since January. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 11:51 pm: |
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"The ZTL would overheat and would undoubtdely struggle to cope with the stock weight of the XR."
No axe to grind you say? Then maybe it's time to drop that kind of talk. Seriously. |
Regkittrelle
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 12:03 am: |
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I think Trojan is more than entitled to his opinion, Blake. While I don't necessarily agree with his certainty, he does raise an interesting point. Unless you can prove him wrong (which I don't believe you can at this time) I don't understand the need to chastise.
..and Trojan, why are you certain ("undoubtdely") of this? |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 02:32 am: |
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I recommended the 5 stars and the ZTL as a way to get to loosing some of the weight, if you skinned 90 lbs off the piglet, she would be closer to the Buell weight.
I still cant see where it would all come from. (and I am pretty good at disassembling bikes for weight reduction, took 58 lbs off a rebel choppa project.)
I think it would be better to start with the 2003 XL883R in the garage and street track that, leave the XR1200 as a cafe XLCR redeux. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 04:39 am: |
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I still cant see where it would all come from.
I am not sure of the exact figure, and may be way out, but 40kg is the aim. Maybe we won't achieve it but who knows.
I have weighed the stock bodywork and that alone weighs 5kg just for a seat unit, tank cover and front fender (2kg just for the fender!). Carbon replacements will save more than half of that straightaway, and the exhaust will save the biggest chunk of weight for sure. After that, things like brake discs, clutch/brake levers and mounts, lighter rearsets, lighter and multi adjustable shocks will add to the savings.
I had forgotten just how heavy duty H-D build things compared to Buell and other Sportsbike manufacturers, and even such parts as exhaust brackets look like they are made from cast iron!
We took 60kg off of our Ulysses when we went racing, and although we took the lights off we kept the wiring loom. Small savings were made in all areas and these all added up to a massive total.
As for the brakes issue, that is just something I feel very strongly about and most people know that. Maybe I should not have said 'undoubtedly' but it is certainly my belief that the ZTL would be hard pushed to deal with the extra weight of this bike. It is pretty widely known that I have no confidence in the ZTL setup, but that is just my opinion formed from experience and doesn't represent 'company policy' .
The brakes on the XR are surprisingly good as they are, and really don't need to be messed with other than a few minor tweaks. Simply fitting braided steel hoses and some good aftermarket sintered pads would make them excellent, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it
(Message edited by trojan on July 02, 2008) |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 03:08 pm: |
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If you have to ride Harley, dual brakes are the only set up. I wouldnt ride a milwaukee iron with out them.
But having the XL883R & XB9SX, I have more confidence and predictability in the Buell set up. Everybody has their preference. Love to see the project as she develops. Keep us posted with pics. I might just change my mind on the Cafe version  |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 03:40 pm: |
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...and even such parts as exhaust brackets look like they are made from cast iron!
Don't laugh - the peg mount brackets on my '04 Sporty were giant cast-steel parts. Weighed a ton. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 12:24 pm: |
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After just 100 miles of riding our bike has had an attack of anorexia I just couldn't stop myself..........That horific carbunkle in the exhaust is the catalytic converter by the way. The airbox isn't normally on the side of the bike, it is just hanging there by the breather tubes at present. The airbox itself is tiny compared to the XB item, and is part of the 10bhp loss over the XB powerplant. Although we can't make it any bigger because of space restrictions under the tank, we are working on a much larger air scoop to try and get more air in there somehow.
Everything else has gone off to be made in lightweight carbon fibre etc
I have been weighing everything as I have taken it off, just to see howmuch we can save in weight. So far the biggest offenders on the scales have been:
Front fender....2kg!!
Muffler......7.5kg
plastic panels....4.6kg
Everywhere I look there are components that look like they were built from portions of the Golden Gate Bridge, so I'm sure there is a huge amount that could be removed.................
Now I just have to sit and twiddle my thumbs for a couple of weeks  |
Tramp
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 07:21 pm: |
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IF you want a lighter, better handling motorcycle with an Evo Sporty mill, You could always save yourself the trouble and purchase on of those.....OH, what do they call them again.......
"Buells" |
Trojan
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 02:59 pm: |
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I have owned nothing but Buells for 12 years now, so fancied something 'the same but diferent'. I much prefer the looks of the XR to the current Buell lineup and ddidn't want an 1125R. I don't need the speed but I like a challenge.
The XR also makes good commercial sense for us, as we can develop a whole new range of parts just for this model. The XR1200 is already proving to be extremely popular over here (outselling the 1125R by the way) and I am sure it will be the same when it is eventually launched in the US later this year. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 06:30 pm: |
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I know our first orange one is already spoken for. The line forms behind ME locally. |
Nevrenuf
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 07:20 pm: |
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they had a nice write up in cycleworld. everyone in the article pretty much agrees that it should be out here first. and they did mention erik and his parts bin. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 07:28 pm: |
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They should have used the ass end of the Firebolt with the passenger pillion cover for that rear seat. much cleaner, smoother than what they did with the integrated pad IMO |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:17 am: |
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Kinda neat that the HD folks at the Buell Summerfest event were from the XR Launch Team. . . .LOTS of insight. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:20 am: |
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many many hours have been logged by those folks in the last few months. My buddy has had about 3 sundays off since Thanksgiving. |
Tramp
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:30 am: |
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Cityxslicker-
absolutely genius point. |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 05:39 pm: |
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quote:I like the XR 1200 and am glad it is getting good press from motorcyclist, but it is rather interesting to compare the verbiage used to describe the XR in contrast to that used for any Buell ten years ago. The 91 hp at the crank seems to be plenty for the XR with all of its torque, but the 101 from a 98 S3 is underpowered. It's handleing is nearly on par with any contemporary naked bike, but that did not seem to be the case for a tube frame Buell weighing 100 lbs less. It would be fun to see an XR 1200 compared to an S1 or S3, or perhaps a 99 M2.
That's simple. Performance-wise the Buells get compared to sportbikes and the XR1200 is being compared to cruisers. What has puzzled me is how other aircooled sportbikes (such as Ducati) don't get dogged for their lower output than more modern mills.
I contemplated the idea of Buell vs XL before I purchased my S1. There were two glaring conclusions:
1.) Nothing will get a stock-framed XL to handle even remotely like a Buell.
2.) I could purchase two more tube-frame Buells for the investment required in parts alone to make an XL what I want.
Some gratuitous eye candy:
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Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 05:47 pm: |
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dear sweet get all out, what is that exhaust!?!!! that solves my ground clearance issues. That would give me an extra 3.5 inches of mud mucking capability. Any more pics of that ?
(PS I just got confirmation of our First Mirage Orange XR1200 with my Name on it, deposit and order number, no vin yet. Looks like a very Harley New Years for me) |
Tramp
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 05:48 pm: |
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zackly my point, rick_a.
Nice shots, by the by.... |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 06:30 pm: |
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This is the only other shot I could find. There's a Battle of the Twins series in Japan where there's a lot of these crazy H-D powered dirt track-styled bikes for some reason. |
Tramp
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 06:54 pm: |
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That just looks like an amazing thing to ride....
I'm in love |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 07:05 pm: |
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uMMM THAT is the XR tribute that I want. And that exhuast for my City-X. That gets me my ground clearance.
The new XR is closer to the XLCR than the mother ship wants to admit. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 08:52 pm: |
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might be a bit much on the right leg with the exhaust though I wonder if its practical if it is its would be a keeper for sure |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 11:12 am: |
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So I read the whole article in Motor Cyclist and noticed on one the pics, that shows the bike leaning to port, that HD has decided to take another page from Buell and is using what looks to be a Buell belt tensioner...anybody else catch that? |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 12:25 pm: |
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There is indeed a fixed belt tensioner fitted under the bottom frame rail. The wheel looks identical to the Buell item but the brackets are different. I still can't quite work out why it is there though, given that the belt can be adjusted manually at the swingarm unlike the XB. I haven't got around to playing around with that side of things yet as I am still working on bodywork, suspension and exhausts at present , but I'll take a closer look when I take the header pipes off. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 02:59 pm: |
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Lookee what just came in on trade....
1990 XL883, 1200 upgrade, mids (needs rearsets) can you say donor ... |
Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 06:40 pm: |
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Don't tell, me, let me guess:
a middle-aged divorcee (5th time's a charm)
with black chaps, conchos, a looong braid, lotsa bad makeup, and
(drum roll) at least one rose tatoo? |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 07:42 pm: |
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Yep, except he was only on his 3rd ExWife |
Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 10:13 pm: |
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A GUY owned that? looks like a hugger..
was his name Willow? |
Guell
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 10:26 pm: |
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slicker, any idea if those pipes will clear the frame on a tuber? |
Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 10:29 pm: |
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You're joking, right?
in case you're not: they won't |
Guell
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 06:15 am: |
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nope wasnt joking, just a very bad idea that wont ever happen. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 03:25 pm: |
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if you have the time and a mandrel bender, hell it all works eventually I havent seen them on the tuber. not sure how they would mount for that application. but it would look pretty wicked on the white lightning. |
Guell
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 06:19 pm: |
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slicker, let me send you some pics of a buell a guy did up, im trying to take some ideas from it, hopefully within a week or so ill have my xr750 tail ordered and start fitting it on my m2. |
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