| Author | Message | ||
     Aeroe |
Ok, here's the situation. Got an '04 Firebolt that just won't start. It had been sitting for a little over a year before we got to it. The valves were stuck and the push rods were bent. It's now got 4 new valves and 4 straight push rods. We put the engine back together and even watched the engine cycle just to make sure everything was moving when it was suppose to. We know we're getting spark. And we know we're getting fuel. Hell, at one point we but enough starter fluid through the engine, it was running out the exhaust pipe. We've check (and re-checked) the timing with ecmspy. We also ran an ECM diagnostic, no errors, with ecmspy. I'm on my way to get new spark plugs right now, though I'm not expecting anything special to happen. The plugs that are in there look brand new. Is there a kill switch that we're not considering? I'm about to lose my mind here! | ||
| Beachbuell |
Clogged fuel injectors? If that bike sat for that long and the fuel wasn't treated or fully drained you'll have issues. That whole fuel system will need to be rebuilt. What caused the engine damage in the first place, is that known? I also noticed in your profile you have an aftermarket tuner ontop of the race ECM. That will cause issues in the future, if not already. (Message edited by beachbuell on June 22, 2008) | ||
| Aeroe |
It's not the injectors (sorry forgot to mention that). We slapped a new throttle body/injectors on there, and checked to make sure they were spraying. I don't know what caused the original engine damage, we picked her up used. My profile is a little dated, I no longer own the 'bolt from my profile. This is a brand new set of problems!! Thanks for the reply! | ||
| Aj06bolt12r2 |
It should run for a short time with no gas at all if you are running starting fluid through it. You are either lacking spark or compression. Not much to go on for me here but kind of sounds like your cam timing is off or even 180 out? | ||
| Aeroe |
Well, we think we're getting spark. When we take the plug out of the head and ground it out we can see it. and while we were trying to get it started, we ran the diagnostic of both the front and rear coil on ecmspy. There was a faint "pop" from the engine (I assume it was because of combustion) towards the end of the diagnostic test each time. And we know we're getting compression because when we were running through the engine cycle there would be a loud "poof" each time an exhaust valve opened. The timing was done using the service manual and ecmspy, we also reset the TPS. There was no combustion when we put the starting fluid in there. Not even a backfire. My question is, when would we get spark when the plugs on the outside but nothing once it's installed? | ||
| Diablobrian |
Bank Angle sensor? or ignition relay? | ||
| Xbrfirebolt |
I think fouled plugs will do what you're describing. They will fire when not under compression. When put back in the engine they won't work. It won't hurt to change them anyways. | ||
| Aeroe |
Diablobrian- How do I test the Bank Able Sensor to see if it's bad? Xbrfirebolt- If I did foul the plugs, do they "un-foul" after a certain period of time? The ones that are in there now have been sitting for several hours between attempted starts. | ||
| Brumbear |
DO NOT USE STARTING FLIUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that shit will destroy the engine and if it did not ignite you have a spark issue period | ||
| Aeroe |
Brumbear- How will it mess up the engine? We've also come to the conclusion that we're not getting spark. So what could it be? We're getting spark when we look at the plug, we're getting spark when we run the diagnostics. We even screwed some speaker wire into the threads of the spark plug and grounded the other side JUST to make sure the plug was grounded. What could cause a plug to spark when you're looking at it, but not spark when it's in the chamber...  | ||
| Aj06bolt12r2 |
It takes more electrical power for a plug to spark when under compression. Starting fluid is bad because it accelerates engine wear really bad, your rings will wear first... | ||
| Bombardier |
Sounds like a dead coil or leads. Will spark in free air but not under compression. | ||
| Aeroe |
Do you think ecmspy would be able to detect a faulty coil? We checked the resistance of the coil, and it was almost double what it was suppose to be. Higher resistance usually means corrosion. We figured that it would still work, because a lower resistance would indicate a short... | ||
| Brumbear |
starting fluid builds up and you get a random spark or just sometimes engine heat and bamn bends everything it doesn't brake | ||
| Aeroe |
Ok, got new plugs, new wires and a new coil on the way. Wish us luck! | ||
| Brumbear |
did you pull a plug wire hook it to a any plug ground it and turn her over to make sure you are getting spark and what color is it and is it random or consistant these things help quite a bit to diagnose a problem | ||
| Fiveowejoe |
mine did the same thing your describing! i pulled out all my hair trying to figure it out. i ended up putting a battery box on it and just kept cycling it. it takes a while to get the film off the inner walls of the chamber after it sits for a long time. mine has had this problem 2 times and i just kept starting it and cycling it and it turned over. eventually! then it will run with the help of your wrist on the throttle. it would try to cut off but i wouldnt let it? haha, i would try that but you gotta be patient. it backfires some too! my bike runs fin now and no problems yet? good luck. this might not be the answer for you but i thought i would share anyways cuz i had the exact same issue with mine. | ||
| Punkid8888 |
You said you replaced the injectors, is the front and rear cylinder connector on the correct fuel injector, and same goes for the spark plug wires. I know it sounds lame but some times its the stupid stuff that burns you in the end. Also did the 04s have the kickstand switch? Might want to double check the kickstand switch, neutral light switch, and clutch switch are all working, or maybe even bypass them for now. | ||
| Ikeman |
I've never had it happen on a bike but on more than one occasion I've found a plug wire with a cut in the insulation/boot on a car that can't be seen easily. Usually caused by yanking the wire off the plug with pliers. The car will start and idle but as soon as a load is applied the wire would arc to the nearest hunk of metal (valve cover, head, block, etc.) and the pulse never makes it to the plug. Could be that the compression is high enough in these motors that it's happening even at startup/idle. Although it's unlikely that both wires are cut. My 2 pennies... (Message edited by ikeman on June 26, 2008) | ||
| Aeroe |
Brumbear- We grounded out the spark plugs and visually checked to make sure we were getting spark. The spark was blue (if I remember correctly) and had a steady beat. Help at all? Punkid- Oh trust me, we check over the electrical plug-ins SEVERAL times! At this point I wish it was something as stupid as that. At least that way I'd know what the problem was, ME! Thanks for double checking though, I can't count the number of times I was trying to fix something and it ended up being something simple like that. Ikeman- I don't remember see any breaks in the insulation/boot. We've got some new ones on the way so hopefully if that was the problem it'll take care of it. Fiveowejoe- Once we get the new plugs, wires, and coil in there we're probably going to crank of it until it starts, or blows up. Lets hope it starts just like you're describing! | ||
| Aeroe |
Brumbear- Correction: The sparks were regular in timing, but irregular in intensity. And some of the weaker sparks may have been more white in color. I just talked to the other guy involved and remembers some small white sparks in there. Any idea what that means? | ||
| Brumbear |
connection problem or ECM problem | ||
| Sparky |
If the coil measured twice the spec resistance and it's putting out regular sparks but of varying intensity, I'd say the coil has an internal defect and is the culprit. It should put out consistent sparks. |
