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Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 01:49 am: | 
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I know that Maximum and ChadHargis as well as my stator were all replaced under warranty.
There is no reason that this shouldn't be replaced under warranty.
I'd say the problem is with the dealer not necessarily with BCS. Dealer should have simply covered it as a failed VR/Stator and been done with it. |
Dirt
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 06:17 pm: |
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"I'd say the problem is with the dealer not necessarily with BCS. Dealer should have simply covered it as a failed VR/Stator and been done with it."
Not sure I agree with this statement. Every time I've had to have warranty work done at the dealership, they wouldn't do anything until after they had contacted Buell for guidance. I'd offer that the blame is 100% Buell's. In my most recent issue (2nd rear bearing failure in 9 months), the Buell representative requested the dealership take pictures of the damage and send it to them before warranty approval would be granted. The dealership has been pretty good about everything, but it seems their hands are tied by Buell. It's going on 3 weeks now and I still haven't heard whether the work will be done under warranty or out of my pocket. I can't see how it wouldn't be covered, but I'm sure Portero never thought his problem wouldn't be covered either.
As for BCS, Portero's experience mirrors one I experienced last year. The BCS rep promised to call me back on 2 occasions. Still waiting for those calls and that was more than 15 months ago. I'm sure others will chime in with their positive experiences with BCS, but this is what I have had to contend with.
FWIW - The bike is a joy to ride, but has been hands down the most unreliable vehicle I have ever owned. It has had to be towed 3 times in the first 15 months and this doesn't include all the small problems I was able to fix myself. Simply unacceptable. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 07:59 pm: |
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My dealer covered the warranty without permission from BCS. They were required to write up a warranty report and submit the failing part, but I don't believe any pre-authorization was required.
I can't imagine that permission must be granted for each and every part replaced under warranty for every single Buell sold over the past two years (or over the last several years with extended warranty).
I presume (which might be dangerous) that the dealership is the first line of defense and Buell CS is the second source in the event that the dealer has questions or needs further guidance. BCS isn't standing there with the bike disassembled part in hand to be able to determine if the part is the cause, the diagnostics on track, or that the part hasn't been tampered with.
There is NO reason 110Watts alone could or would have caused a stator/voltage regulator failure. That is ridiculous.
The question of whether the lights caused the failure appears to come from the belief that if it isn't supplied from the factory directly as a dealer installed part that it somehow MUST be the cause of the failure. I believe that under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act they must be able to directly PROVE that the consumer installed part directly caused the failure in order to deny the warranty claim.
I believe they would be hard pressed to do this. |
Dirt
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 08:40 pm: |
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I can only speak from my experiences to date. Maybe it's been the type of warranty problems I've had or it could be as simple as the dealers I've taken my bike to, but in each instance I've been told that they would first have to consult with Buell. In one case, I sat in the service manager's office while he made the call. |
Xbimmer
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 08:45 pm: |
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My stator was replaced under warranty, the dealer botched the job, but it was warrantied.
Ft_bstrd, your dealer seems to be on its way to Deity status. I'm envious... |
Froggy
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 08:48 pm: |
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Dirt, that is bull****. My dealer would (and has) bent over backwards for me for warranty stuff. Like when i was bringing my bike in for 15k service, i mentioned that the fan is almost dead. The service writer said "Hang on, let me check the computer.... Ok we got 3 in stock, I'll add it to the work order." Other than the service, i didn't pay a dime for anything else that trip. I even left a note to check the wheel bearings because it was getting new tires anyway, and turns out one side of the rear was on the way out, they replaced both sides no questions asked. Also on that same service, they replaced my pulsing front brake rotor i mentioned the last time i had it in for service, yet i didn't even mention it this time!
Long story short, there are good dealers, bad dealers, and average dealers. It sounds like to me that they are just a average dealer, Hopefully next time you break down, its a block from Danbury Harley. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 10:36 pm: |
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Ft_bstrd, your dealer seems to be on its way to Deity status. I'm envious...
I agree. I can't say enough good about my dealer.
So far they have covered the following under warranty:
Fuel Pump
Brake Rotor
Brake Pads
Four Bank Angle Sensors
Rear Bearings
Cooling Fan
Voltage Regulator
Stator
I will cross over 20,000 miles this month.
Were it not for having a fantastic dealer to work with, I'd be pretty bitter about my ownership experience.
There was not a call to BCS for a single component of this repair history. In fact, for most of this list parts were ordered sight unseen by my diagnosis of the problem.
I can't imagine that each one of these repairs included the BCS approval dithering that is being described or that the same occurred with Chadhargis' repairs of his fan, stator, and voltage regulator.
Like I said, it could be happening, but I doubt it. I'm certain the dealership didn't eat the cost of these repairs either.} |
Portero72
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 12:40 pm: |
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I'm gonna hijack my own thread...
I'm home....Anyhoo, I spoke with the tech when I picked up my bike. His story goes, 'after replacement parts were in, voltage is charging at 14.6 at idle. plug in the extra lights and voltage drops to 12, then stays there no matter the rpms.'
After I put my own meter to it, i see that at idle it runs about 12.5 to 13. Plug in the accessory lights and the voltage DOES drop, but the BUELL HEATED GRIPS have the same effect. Plus, add some rpms and the charging comes up in BOTH situations, to around 14 or a tad over.
Questions-I assumed it was normal for a load to decrease charging at idle, but revs should bring it back up. Was I wrong? The tech's numbers and mine don't seem to match. hmmmmm...
Also, what SHOULD the voltmeter be reading at various rpms, with or without load? I'm still building my case.
FWIW, still no callback from BCS...booo |
Portero72
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 05:11 pm: |
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One more point...
During my time at the dealer, the service writer let it be known that warranty work does not pay as much as regular repair work. I quote, 'warranty work doesn't pay sh!t...'
Any truth to this? |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 05:34 pm: |
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Any truth to this?
Not that I know of.
The stator produces minimum power at idle. Add a load to it, and the voltage will drop because the volts generated are a function of the number of passes the rotor makes over the stator windings. A single phase will make one power pulse per rotor pulse. A three phase will make three power pulses per rotor pulse. (Please show mercy electrical gods if I have made an error in my communication of stator function.) At 1,000 RPMSs the stator is generating a certain amount of power. If you attached a light that drew enough power, you could potentially be able to stall out the bike because there would be in sufficient electrical power to run the light and provide spark once the battery goes dead. Increase the RPMS and the rotor makes more passes over the stator windings and generates more power. Power in excess of that which the system can handle is controlled by the voltage regulator.
To answer your question, your readings are correct. I'm not sure why his readings were stable regardless of RPMs. Where was he testing the power output? From the stator? From the voltage regulator? From the system down stream of the voltage regulator? |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 06:57 pm: |
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Please show mercy electrical gods
You're doing pretty well.
The purist in me would note that at any given RPM, the stator is generating a certain amount of voltage. Whether any power is actually produced, depends on what the stator is feeding. With our shunt regulator system, excess voltage is dumped to ground, which does consume power, and your explanation is correct in that context. If we had a different type of regulator, we would not have to dump power to ground, it would never be taken from the stator. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 07:18 pm: |
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power=voltage for my sad analysis.
I guess my question would be is there a way for us to upgrade our system with a different type of regulator or alter the stator to improve potential longevity?
Our system is simple, nigh even elegant. The trade-off is a narrow range of function in return for simplicity.
If you plug along at 3,500 RPMs, the system isn't bad. You probably won't see any long term problems. If you run with your bike at 4,000+ RPMs most of the time, your stator will provide more VOLTAGE than is needed (unless you are running a microwave).
I think a wind providing less peak power would work, but you'd have to make sure that there was sufficient power to keep the bike charging long enough at idle to keep the bike running.
The other option would be to "unplug" one or more of the phases at peak.
Damn, I knew I should have picked engineering over business administration. |
Dirt
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 08:56 pm: |
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Any truth to this?
I worked one summer at a Ford dealership many years ago. At that time, Ford reimbursed the dealer a set hourly rate for warranty work. The rate was substantially lower then what the dealerships charged customers for non-warranty work. In addition reimbursements were made in a lump sum at the end of the quarter. Depending on when the work was performed, this could mean a wait of up to three months to get paid. I can only assume Buell has implemented a similar plan, but I'm sure someone will chime in to tell me thats bull****.  |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 11:06 pm: |
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power=voltage for my sad analysis.
That's equivalent to saying HP = Torque. It makes the pedantic side of my brain hurt.
Your unplug a phase idea is interesting. That would be fairly simple to implement with a relay or two.
I haven't looked at the VR in detail, though I've seen the fins on it's heatsink. If those fins are detachable, the simplest solution might just be a larger heatsink. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 11:25 pm: |
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pedantic side of my brain
I had that removed and had it replaced with beer and boobies. |
Portero72
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 05:11 pm: |
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An update:
After much headaching and bellyaching, BCS has decided to warranty my claim-parts, labor and all. The $$ I had to pay for labor will be reimbursed to my credit card. Not sure what turned the tables, but apparently Buell tech people spoke with the service people at the dealer, and that's all she wrote. Or perhaps it was my daily phone calls.
I'm still a tad bitter. 2 breakdowns, 2 states away on essentially a 10 month old bike marred what was otherwise a memorable roadtrip. Add to that a lost week of work, plane ticket to get home, truck rental to get bike back to Tx and dozens of phone calls to a seemingly resistant CS line has sullied(slightly) my Buell experience. That said....
...my bike still gives me a woody. |
Portero72
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 05:12 pm: |
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A side note...several times during my dealings with BCS, they referred to themselves as Harley CS. hmmmmmm |
Xbimmer
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 11:58 pm: |
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Good news Portero, now go get a voltmeter or battery meter, and ride on! 
And oh yeah, please DON'T trust that your tech actually checked the 77-connector... |
Tipsymcstagger
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 01:12 am: |
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And oh yeah, please DON'T trust that your tech actually checked the 77-connector...
Somebody mentioned the 77-connector is not an issue on '08's.
Is this the case because of the difference in stator output on the '08's (v.s '06 and '07) or because the connector was redesigned/eliminated?
Tipsy |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 01:32 am: |
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Its gone |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 01:46 am: |
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Good news Portero. |
Portero72
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 09:43 am: |
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And oh yeah, please DON'T trust that your tech actually checked the 77-connector...
I checked that in the parking lot of Tucson HD...can't truss 'em... |
Pso
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 08:45 am: |
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When I took my bike in to the Hardley dealership of Annapolis for a "chrging problem" I made sure to ask them to check the #77 connector. Well after about an hour they said that the Voltage Regulator needed to be replaced, but the connector was fine. When I picked the bike up the following week, the service folks mentioned that there appeared to be some arcing in the connector for the voltage regulator. I asked them whey they damaged the connector in the prior three days, because the tech had said on friday that it was ok. I got the bovine look. they said that the problem was probably becasue of my PIAA aux lights. O well another day of talking with people that do not know what they do not know. |
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