| Author | Message | ||
     Johnboy777 |
Just a quick comment. My oil temp dropped from a high of 212deg in traffic to a high of 185deg in traffic on a recent 95deg afternoon. I have EG's temp gauge. The only change from stock was to fatten up my fuel map slightly and to wire open the exhaust at the actuator after the actuator went bad, last month. The bike sounds better at idle, louder but not overly so, and seems to run better overall with the muffler wired open. The drivability seems better to me with the muffler open. Some folks have said it hurts the mid-range, but mine seems fine (as if I could really tell a few HP here or there, any way). I think the muffler valve just serves EPA regs of some sort - the rest is marketing BS, to put the proper spin on it, which is okay. John. . | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Here's a few photos of the bracket that holds the cable in order to keep the muffler valve open - that little blob of black is just RTV to keep in from moving around, or up and out.   | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I know that as a rule on Harleys if you have freer flowing pipes and a less restrictive air cleaner the mpg goes up quite a bit. Worked on my Electraglide except the Screaming Eagles were just too loud for me. John, you got me thinking about getting a K&N and wiring that valve open and seeing if my gas mileage goes up. Thanks. I probably wouldn't even notice the low in tq drop if there is one. | ||
| 05mxdiesel |
Thanks for the writeup. If I would of done the same, I would of probably welded the actuator at the muffler to keep it open and lose the cable all together. I like my low end though. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Nothing ventured, nothing gained and it's easily reversible. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
"Thanks for the writeup. If I would of done the same, I would of probably welded the actuator at the muffler to keep it open and lose the cable all together. I like my low end though." Who says you'd lose low-end? My low-end is stronger with the muffler valve open (think mini-Drummer). Off-idle, 1,500 on up, very smooth. I can even cruise @ 15MPH in 1st gear now. It's all good - at least for me. YMMV, though! I've been messin' with my fuel map as well... so who knows. At any rate, as EG mentioned, you no likey, just remove the bracket and go back to the way it was, prior. BTW, I am selling the brackets at my cost; $93 plus $17 for shipping. So $115 total, if any one is interested. The first 50 orders receive a free mini-tube of RTV, as well.... so hurry! John | ||
| 05mxdiesel |
Honestly, I am sick of modding things and three motorcycles I have are 100% stock other than some bolt ons. I now have the just the ride the damn thing attitude. 6 years of motocross racing will do that to you. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Please, say it ain't so, Mr. 05mxdiesel. Since time primordial, man has longed to mod something. It is in man's nature to mod - and whom among us can fight that god-given nature to mod. Modding is good, To mod is to live - to live, is to mod. As Gordon Gekko, once said: ""The point is, ladies and gentleman, that modding -- for lack of a better word -- is good. Modding is right. Modding works. Modding clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Modding, in all of its forms -- Modding for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind. Thank you very much."" . | ||
| Blake |
"I think the muffler valve just serves EPA regs of some sort - the rest is marketing BS, to put the proper spin on it" You are mistaken. The valve also provides for optimum performance throughout the rev range. We've seen the dyno charts that demonstrate that quite well. With a stock muffler the valve provides significant performance gains. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""You are mistaken. The valve also provides for optimum performance throughout the rev range. We've seen the dyno charts that demonstrate that quite well. With a stock muffler the valve provides significant performance gains."" It wouldn't be the first time. When the valve opens, no doubt - it makes more power, runs cooler and gets better MPG. The advantages of a closed valve (during closed valve operation, are less significant, overall). A little additional torque at various points in the RPM range, perhaps. The main reason 'for' the valve is/was to enable the bike to achieve a specific db range during required sound level testing. The Drummer and SpecOp are proof of that. It's rather like saying, because of the valve's ability to open, and (the muffler to) become less restrictive, this muffler makes more power with the valve, and its ability to open... well, of course it does. It was too damn restrictive in the first place. After all, there are far more reasons for a muffler to be less restrictive than there are for it to be more restrictive. IMHO, that is. One further point, if I may, with regard to the American Sport Bike shootout, for the most part, after all of the hoopla, we are only talking about a few HP here or there ... 'much ado about nothing'... to quote Bill. Finally, thank you for a great website, and the effort to do so - lots of valuable info here. I would have been lost without it. John H.   | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
John, Those pictures look like a diagram of my internals after a good feeding at Taco Bell. In one hole and out the other. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""Al parecer, su válvula esta abierta""  . | ||
| Conchop |
That looks like it's wired closed. The cable pushes the muffler valve open. Or am I seeing things? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
"That looks like it's wired closed. The cable pushes the muffler valve open. Or am I seeing things?" The default position for the actuator is muffler valve closed (normally closed), so when/if it fails the muffler valve will stay in the closed position. The muffler has a rather strong internal spring on the valve itself, and stays in the normally closed position as well. When the cable is pulled it opens the muffler valve. . | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
John, I went ahead and secured the valve open this morning using a magnetic bicycle spoke clamp that normally is used as a front wheel magnetic pickup for a bicycle computer. I save stuff just in case and it was in my vision while I was starting to make a clamp similar to yours. Pulled on the cable and then just clamped it open. The valve spring felt like it was working just great and offered very little resistance. I haven't ridden yet but I did let it idle and you are correct in that it is louder. Not terribly but just throatier. I'll let you all know what my impressions are after I take it for a spin today. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Yeah, EG, it has a much nicer sounding exhaust at idle, with the valve open. I am looking forward to hearing what you think of the performance, as well as the drivability (especially at slower speeds)with it open. The problem for me now, is that I can't tell which changes in the bike are a result of my fuel map adjustment, and which, a result of fixing the muffler valve open. John . (Message edited by johnboy777 on June 12, 2008) | ||
| Sarodude |
It astounds me that nobody knows or cares about the value of altering tuned lengths in intakes and exhausts. -Saro | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Went for a 50 miler with the exhaust valve forced open. Sounds throatier, more like a Harley at idle. Idles fine and takes off from dead stop same as before, strong. 77 degrees outside temp. Oil got up to 190 on open road and topped at 200 after I got back into metro area of Omaha. Fan came on after 32 miles of riding. Ran fine but noticed that it would ping when I'd wack her to wide open throttle. That would be the only thing I didn't care for. I filled up at beginning of the ride and will see how far this tank goes before going on Reserve. If mpg is better, maybe I'll leave it like this for the trip to Homecoming. If worse or same, I'll change it back to normal valve operation. I didn't check if crawl speed was smoother. Next time out I'll test that. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
EG, Do you have ECMspy? . | ||
| Endoagain |
Remembered I too have a few bicycle parts laying around and scrounged up a magnetic spoke pickup. Attached it in the open position and went for a ride. I have over 8K on my 07 STT and have ridden my 30 mile neighborhoods/backroads/highway loop many, many times. Do it every time I change something so I can tell how it works. Noticed immediately that I did not have that off idle hesitation as I was letting out the clutch...that feeling as if it is going to catch and stall. Never has but always seems as if it will. This time it was just very smooth. Also noted no huge hit of torque. It felt like a 9 down low. It was definitely easier to ride down low. Dropped the RPMs and just kept letting them drop. Went to no throttle and the bike moved along at 8mph doing 800rpms. Was not always smooth when trying to give it small throttle amts but far better than before. Could ride at 15mph...in 2nd gear. I can do this at 20mph with valve closed, but not 15. On the highway I let the speed drop in 5th gear and it just kept dropping while remaining smooth...tooled around at 1800rpm. Rolled on with no problem, no pinging, no lugging. One other big item. No flat spot at 4500 followed by a huge kick. Background. When i first got the bike it did not want to ride below 3K. As the bike has broken in, and again after a switch to Royal Purple (not trying to start an oil thread!) at 7K, the bike has ridden better and better at low RPM. I typically ride it now from 2-4K or from 5-7K. I avoid crossing that 4-5 boundary unless I am on a straight. Do not like the kick while heeled over in a corner. With the valve open there is still a little step up, but not enough to make the rear "step out"...I really have to strain to notice it. The bike now easily slows to nothing in 2nd for a corner, then spools up to red line. Gives a much broader range of usable RPM for me. This is what I was hoping a Drummer would do for me but I did not want the noise (will be going to Yellowstone this summer and don't want to "spook the heard"). Will run some tanks to check the mpg. There again, I rarely got more than 46mpg for the first 7K. Then used Royal Purple and the lowest I have had since is 46.(NO ethanol or cold weather factors in Texas) That while doing 80 into a head wind for 150 miles. I have had two tanks at 55mpg, several at 50-52, one at 48 and one at 46. 55mpg tanks were run at 300ft elevation, 75mph on highway. Look forward to hearing results from others. | ||
| Growl |
Good report Endoagain... I appreciate the data | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I always use Ethanol. That may have something to do with the pinging but I've only heard hard pinging a couple of times in over 12000 miles. I have ECMSpy and the cable but have only used it to verify timing (spot on) and reset TPS. One thing that I did not report above is that for some reason, not sure why, I kept forgetting to downshift to 1st a number of times and would start out from stop signs in 2nd gear. It was always a smooth take off and had no problem at all doing that but of course could tell I wasn't in 1st gear. Kind of strange really. The funny thing is, I remember demoing an 08' last summer at Sturgis and first gear takeoffs were probably equal to yesterday's 2nd gear takeoffs. I remember telling the demo leader that my 06' had way more balls than the 08' and of course they came up with the new throttle cam and EPA excuses. Why change the throttle cam if you have to make excuses for it? (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on June 13, 2008) | ||
| Johnboy777 |
EG, Let me know if you'd like me to send you my fuel maps to try out. John | ||
| Conchop |
OK = I'm sold - I'm going out and wire mine open too! | ||
| Conchop |
I like it. Mid range is a little off but not by enough to offset the low end gains. She sounds better too. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
A quick, easy, cheap, and reversible way to hold the cable open is with one of these fishing lead weights called a split shot that can be had at Walmart or anyplace that sells fishing supplies. Pull on the cable to open the valve and pinch on the split shot with a pair of pliers so that the cable spring can't pull the cable back. Probably get a whole bag of 1/8 or 1/4 oz split shot for a buck or two.  | ||
| Jespo_m2 |
Just found this thread after testing my 06 Uly with e-valve wired open, 07 air lid with K&N, reset TPS and AFV. I'm happy with the changes. Better all around performance and sound. Not loud at all. Had many tubers with loud cans... e-valve open sound is completely accepable. I'm sticking with it. Cheap thrills in my opinion. |
