| Author | Message | ||
     Tramp |
 | ||
| Spatten1 |
I'm good with letting people wear no protective equipment EXCEPT when they don't have health insurance and I have to pay for their hospital bill. If they are willing to pay for their injuries, let'em do whatever they want. I've raced with guys that paid $1000 for a pipe, but didn't have health insurance. To me this is messed up because 1) Their bike is faster than mine because I spent my money on health insurance and 2) The rest of us will end up paying for their free medical treatment. Pay your bills and do whatever you want. Jump off of the Sears Tower naked if you want to, I couldn't care less. | ||
| Rainman |
Bads1 and Tramp: I respect your opinions from reading other posts. You're both intelligent, if passionate people. Don't let disagreements and anger ruin a perfectly good, if tumultuous relationships. I'd hate to see either of you leave in anger. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>EXCEPT when they don't have health insurance and I have to pay for their hospital bill.<< Valid point, but then it's only one of 10 things I can think of quickly that equally piss me off about the unfairness of the welfare state. Until I need welfare. That schmucks medicals factor only a fraction of a fraction of my cent in the big picture. For that - I don't give a etc etc. | ||
| Tom_b |
All i can say is WHEEE! I'm still waiting to hear from the person who actually took the picture that started all this and said it was the "norm " for kansas. Also explain how they figured they were safer than the guy on the bike. at least explain where the pic came from | ||
| Bill0351 |
Dave, I know it's slightly off topic, but how is health care covered in Australia and New Zealand? Is it socialized like Canada or mainly privatized like the USA? Bill | ||
| Danger_dave |
Different funding models either side of the Tasman. Both are public systems that provide free A&E and basic hospital care. Aus has a dedicated medicare levy on income. NZ funds from general tax. Aus system is better. Private insurance is necessary if you don't want cattle class and long waiting lists. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I'm with spatten on this one. While I encourage (some would say preach) ATGATT (and I do "walk the walk" FWIW) I do not believe in helmet laws or other legislation/laws regarding gear. However, as has been proved with exhaust systems if we do not police ourselves when it comes to actions that affect our image the government WILL get involved and mandate things in ways we do not find pleasant. Irresponsible riders making a mess of themselves on public highways without sufficient insurance will eventually cause a backlash from the nanny state that has been largely ignoring us. Whenever the govt. is involved an ounce of prevention is worth the pound of cure. I have served to protect the freedoms that you hold so dear and would have given my life in that cause had I been in a situation that warranted it, but some of those freedoms are becoming endangered by careless riders. I'm not trying to flame anyone and I'm not looking for a fight here, just trying to take a reasonable look at what is being debated. Feel free to disagree I will carefully consider your views on this. I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong, but I think I'm on pretty solid ground on this one. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
here I thought this would have ended up being a conversation about wearing all this gear all the time. That will thin some of the herd  | ||
| Benm2 |
Even if a motorcyclist without insurance crashes and we collectively pay some fraction for his insurance, is that a reason to lash out against it? Here's a brief list of things people do that will ultimately lead to someone's untimely demise or misfortune: 1. Tailgating at 80mph on highway 2. Tailgating at 80mph on highway on cell phone 3. Eating too much saturated fat 4. Eating too much sugar 5. Drinking too much alchohol 6. Smoking 7. Unprotected sex 8. Bicycle racing 9. Sunbathing 10. Improper use of chainsaw 11. Homeowner electrical work 12. Homeowner plumbing work That list above could easily be extended almost indefinitely. Why is it that a motorcyclist without a helmet or gear is any worse than a fat guy with a penchant for doughnuts, french fries & big mac's driving his Ford Taurus (the universal salesman's car) at 85mph in the left lane while smoking? I don't want to pay for him either, but I know it's a much larger battle to say that the public shouldn't share the load when he bins it. Why is that? Because his irresponsibility is MUCH more common, and there's too much of "him" in "us". The unprotected motorcyclist is an easy target, but certainly not the largest one. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
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| Danger_dave |
Whew - glad I'm down here. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Why is it that a motorcyclist without a helmet or gear is any worse than a fat guy with a penchant for doughnuts, french fries & big mac's driving his Ford Taurus (the universal salesman's car) at 85mph in the left lane while smoking? You live in Philly where that is a way of life! Won't be changing that anytime soon. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Whew - glad I'm down here. HEY! I saw you up there!...... $hit! I'm up there too..... Maybe I was a little quick on the FAG thing..... | ||
| Nautique4life |
I think this is the first time I am hesitant to post...here goes: A buddy of mine was cruising along (in a cage)some lady runs a red light, he t-bones her right in the door, she's DEAD. Tragic? Absolutely. His fault? Of course not. Could HE have done ANYTHING to avoid it? Not likely. How is he now? He's doing just fine. He used the settlement money to get out of debt, among other things. Did he Kill her? Technically, yes. His truck struck hers. But it was her CHOICE to run that red light. I asked him if he was remorseful post wreck, he said he felt more anger than anything, but felt extremely bad for the family that was left behind. A tragedy such as that is sure to play hell with your brain and emotions. Frank Sinatra said it best: That's Life. (Message edited by nautique4life on June 04, 2008) | ||
| Limitedx1 |
man when i read thining the herd i expected to read about protesting mcdonalds. | ||
| Mikej |
Are some people's concerns about ATGATT or about subsequent health insurance costs or about future legislation? Maybe we should outlaw surfing due to shark attacks. Now, everyone go to this link and read the stories, sometimes all the gear in the world won't save you: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/366154.html?1212584586#POST1163718 | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Maybe we should outlaw surfing due to shark attacks." Just make shark proof suits mandatory gear? My brother in law has a saying.."over 70mph, the only difference between wearing a helmet or not is whether your casket will be open or closed." | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
My brother in law has a saying.."over 70mph, the only difference between wearing a helmet or not is whether your casket will be open or closed." Don't tell my wife that! She wouldn't let me race anymore! | ||
| Tramp |
yep- the government really needs to interdict in our recreational lives even more. We need more mandatory regulations for surfing, riding, etc. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Compulsory helmets were introduced in Australia around 1975. I got my licence in 1976 and the predominate bitch amongst my contemporaries was the lack of freedom, nanny state-ism. loss of liberty. yada yada yada. There were some loopholes - you could say you got migraines and sign stat decs etc - so it was basically only the outlaws who went helmetless. I never knew anything else so HTFUed and bought a nice black bell and have had top shelf hats ever since. They closed the loopholes not long after and even the hardest outlaws ride with open face hats and harley style gear. What I find Interesting is the attitude shift after 30 years of compulsoryism. Any reminiscences of the old days and their freedoms are howled down as irresponsible suicide by the younger set. Of course the bikes are faster and there are more morons on the road now days - but a general 180 degree attitude shift in about 25 years. Conditioning? Common sense? Yess - we are all individuals... | ||
| Slaughter |
My brother in law has a saying.."over 70mph, the only difference between wearing a helmet or not is whether your casket will be open or closed." Yeah - what Wolfridgerider said about that racing thing. I've destroyed THREE helmets coming off in excess of 100 MPH. ONE Arai took the weight of the sidecase landing on it, pushing my head face-down into the mud. I even screwed a football helmet jaw protector to my Bell helmet back in the day - and a couple years later full-face helmets were generally available. Of course, all the usual caveats about nanny-state-isms... yadda yadda yadda... but we're always short on donated organs... (Message edited by slaughter on June 04, 2008) | ||
| Miamiuly |
Hope everyone who is making organ donor jokes IS actually an organ donor. I am and it is kind of strange to hear being an organ donor used as an insult. I get the reference, as in he is in a HURRY to donate his organs, but as an organ donor I don't care for the term used as a negative. I'm with Tramp on this thread. And the others who made similar points. Take away all our freedom to protect us from ourselves and others is just a part of communism. At least we know that there are some good comrades ready to turn in those who don't conform. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Can we talk about seat belts and smoking? | ||
| Ceejay |
after I get on bike to ride around the block so I can have a cig... | ||
| Tramp |
I always wear my fullface on my scoot, and I always wear my seatbelt in cars... But , man- the mandatory seatbelt reg.s feel so absurd when i consider that i ride my scoot without one} | ||
| Slaughter |
I actually DO have the donor card filled out and also have given SPECIFIC instructions in writing to Sunny. She has been in the ambulance TWICE now with me to the ER with head injuries so she HAS had to face the possibility of having to present the docs with my notarized statement regarding organ donation (DMV rules apparently don't apply in racing incidents) Hell, you can't take em with you! | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
What about hav'n a smoke??? KILLS more peeps than anything else and yet we can buy them all day long.... anywhere... | ||
| Ceejay |
but similar to fireworks you can't use em... | ||
| Bcordb3 |
I even screwed a football helmet jaw protector to my Bell helmet back in the day How many of you remember the JOFA face guards? Another pair of snaps were attached to the helmet, snapped the JOFA on. They were quite effective. Most of motocross and enduro riders used them in the late 60's and early 70"s. |
