| Author | Message | ||
     Toona |
Greetings all, I'm looking for some info on a comparison between an XB and an S1-hence the apples and oranges title. I currently have an XB12S, but have been looking for a S1/S3T/S2 even before I bought the XB. I know the XB is more refined, but what I am looking for is a comparison of seating position between the two bikes. I rode an X1, and it seemed a little more aggressive position (leaned forward) than my XB-would the S1 be the same? Can I get a bar that would give a little more upright riding position? I've found a '98 S1, black, PM wheels but the owner says it needs the oil pump drive gear replaced. Price is listed as $2100 obo, I'm thinking closer to $1700-$1800. I haven't seen the bike in person, so that may change depending on condition. I've always loved the S1, especially in yellow...ahh pitter, patter, pitter, patter...., but the black just looks bad*** raw. What kind of factory rated HP does this have? Weight? The '98 is the last year for carb's, could it be swapped to FI-worth the bother/effort? Lastly, why did Buell come out with an S2 then go to S1 and then S3? Why not 1, 2, 3? The XB's I understand pretty completely, but the tuber's are an entire new world to me. Thanks for your input, Toona | ||
| Bad_karma |
Dan Haven't ridden an XB's but from the picture I believe the S1 will be close to your riding position except you sit on the S1 and more like sit in the XB and the seat on the S1 is way worse than that of the XB. 97 was the end of the carburetor in the tubers except the M2. I'm biased I would stay with the carburetor. S3 is more upright than the S1, better seat and better wind protection. The owner says it needs the oil pinion gear, I'm concerned is there other damage or was it an inspection that found it? The 98 was the first of the thunderstorm motor make something over 100hp. The difference that I noticed between the lightning motor and the thunderstorm was the lightning had torque at idle and was not as strong as the thunderstorm from 6200 rpm and up. The thunderstorm had to be clutched from idle and was down on torque until about 1500 rpm. Believe the weight is 465 lbs and the S3T was about 20 lbs heavier. Think of a tuber as a simpler XB. Never ridden an XB but just from reading the boards daily it is a different bike. Tuber's are easy to work for somethings (plugs,wires,and routine maintenance)and others harder (drive belt)though I don't see it needing anymore maintenance than the XB's. | ||
| Jos51700 |
Correction, the 98 S1W was the first 101 hp motor. You might be looking at an S1W, too. They have a habit of losing their identity if they're not all-white. At $2100, I'd buy it if you didn't. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Did the oil pump gear go??? Or is he saying replace it because everyone said so? | ||
| Toona |
He's saying it did go. What I'm not sure about is if he did replace it or if it needs to be replaced. Other than a logo, is there anything to tell the difference between a regular S1 and an S1W? | ||
| Ratbuell |
S1 is a small tank bike, silver heads ("Lightning" engine, I think 92hp was the rating). 2" header collector. Probably a charcoal frame. There's a VIN digit giveaway too, but I don't recall it offhand. S1W is a large Manta-tank bike, black Thunderstorm heads. 2.5" header collector. 101hp spec. I could be wrong, but I think the majority of White Lightnings had a colored frame - black, blue, white, silver - and not the stock charcoal. 97 was NOT the last year of the carb. You could get a carb on the S3/T up thru 98; the S1 and S1W, and the M2 up until it was cancelled, were all carbureted. Keep it, park it with an empty bowl (shut the petcock and let it run till it dies), you'll never have a problem with it. If you've ridden a 12Ss (long), the handling is very similar to a tuber. Not as "twitchy" as the standard wheelbase XBs can be, but still very capable in the twisties. There's also a bit more room on a tuber than there is on a standard XB (I'm 6'4"). The S1 will probably seat you in between your XB and the X1. S3 and S3T bars fit right up to the S1 if you want something taller. I went lower and put on Crossroads clip-on style bars. The tuber is raw, unrefined, shakes, makes noise, smells bad, pisses off pedestrians and scares small children and pets. It's awesome. I alternate regularly between my Uly and my S2...but when I *really* need therapy I get on my S1W. Worthless as far as daily transportation goes (my S2 and Uly both have bags to carry stuff and a "legitimate" riding position; the S1W is a pretzel-maker with no bags)...but gawd-DAMN is it fun to ride! And +1 on the "I'll buy it if you don't at $2100". | ||
| Toona |
Hmm, let's see. The description says 5 gal tank. New F&R sneakers, new F&R brakes. Can't tell from the poor pictures if it has a charcoal or silver frame, same on the header diameter-unknown. It does have a "ham can" air filter housing-don't know if they all did (S1/S1W) or not, or if the S1 ever had the "toaster box" housing like the X1. I've sent an email to the seller asking for more info, but haven't heard back yet....    | ||
| Ratbuell |
OK, the hamcan is part of the race kit. So is the muffler and header shown on the bike. Has the twin tail seat and tail section instead of the solo, and it looks like a rack of some sort for luggage. Looks like the proseries billet pegs too. Definitely shown with the larger tank - could be a white lightning, but the silver heads (they look silver in the pics, anyway) and charcoal frame tell me it's a standard S1 that someone put the bigger tank and twin seat on. Nice looking bike though, love the darker colors with the PM wheels. | ||
| Ratbuell |
For comparison, my white White Lightning with black thunderstorm heads and original solo tail (the twin was an accessory from the catalog).  | ||
| Buellsrule |
If the oil pump drive gear has failed, you may be looking at replacing the motor. Those gears are known to put metal through the entire engine. If it failed, you will most likely have to split the case and do a complete tear down. Any other way is not smart. Best of luck. BR. | ||
| Smoke |
vin difference: lightning=ss white lightning=ys. if the gear broke and he shut down right away there could be very little issue: oil pump, oil pump drive gear, change oil filter, flush oil lines and tank, pull pressure switch and flush passage at filter. (mine) if ran till engine stopped or started making bad noises then you could spend 2-5000 depending on your skill and desire. tim | ||
| Benm2 |
Do you need another reason to buy it? DISCLAIMER: tubers require more attention. If you're not mechanically inclined, run away. If you LIKE working on motors, the possibility of a cases-up rebuild should be considered when negotiating the price. Some careful parts hunting & basic machine work can easily net you a 95 RWHP funplex. A bit more money could get you about 105. (Blake's bike is a good example of that build route). If you've won the lottery, the 88" kit or other such nonsense can make it a really fearsome machine. Tubers RULE! | ||
| Toona |
I am mechanically inclined. +1 I have a tenant in my building that does HD repair and has already said he could "fix it" for me +2 The tuber is raw, unrefined, shakes, makes noise, smells bad, pisses off pedestrians and scares small children and pets. It's awesome. +3 Now if the owner would just contact me so we could deal -1 | ||
| Toona |
Benm2: whatcha doing this Fri/Sat? Come on up to the Res Ride near Altoona (see Res Ride in Storm Front section of BadWeB). Alchemy is coming up on Friday (Pottstown area, I believe) and he's looking to split a room at the H.I. Express. | ||
| F_skinner |
Toona, what Rat said The tuber is raw, unrefined, shakes, makes noise, smells bad, pisses off pedestrians and scares small children and pets. It's awesome. +10 The oil pump gear would bother me and unless he is willing to replace it so you could start it to make sure the motor is not frozen I would not give more than 1000 for it. It looks like a standard S1 with the big tank and looks like the swingarm has been replaced. It is a good looking bike for sure. I rode my S1W to work today. It is a violent ride and it takes me a while to get use to the seating position after riding other bikes (I always feel like I am sliding up on the tank until I get use to it). It is not a bike I would ride more than 300 miles a day on but the fun factor around town is well worth it. It is not for the faint of heart. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
The oil pump gear would bother me and unless he is willing to replace it so you could start it to make sure the motor is not frozen I would not give more than 1000 for it. That would be about the worse thing that the owner could do and would be no indication that there isn't catastrophic engine damage waiting to stop the show as soon as you get it home. Since the oil pump drive gear HAS failed, the engine MUST have a total tear down. Negotiate the price from that stand point and walk away if the price isn't low enough to make a rebuild worth doing. (Message edited by scott_in_nh on May 21, 2008) | ||
| Benm2 |
Thank you very much for the invite, but the M2 has been a track-only tool for about 3 years now. I moved close enough to Philadelphia that commuting was too scary & insurance was too much money. Hope you have a good ride! Ben | ||
| Buellfighter |
Assume the worse case scenario if buying if buying a bike with a broken oil pump gear. Sounds like you would be buying a rolling chassis. | ||
| Phelan |
run away!!!! LOL. Seriously though, the motor WILL have to come apart regardless. I had the same thing happen to my '03 XL1200S and that's why I riding my '95 S2 instead of a streetfighter Sportster with STD heads. | ||
| Classicbuells |
I wouldn't touch a bike where the oil pump drive gear had failed. Walk on by. | ||
| Jstfrfun |
But it's only a machine and CAN be fixed! Sounds like a good project to me. Give me a holler if you take a pass on it. | ||
| Phelan |
If I had the dough, I would buy it, though I wouldn't give more than $1800 for it. At least that much can easily be recovered by parting it out if the motor rebuild goes south. The heads alone, even as lightning heads, could get you $200. I sold my dual-plugged lightning heads off the 1200S for $325 and I sold a set of polished PM wheels last year without tires for $700 on ebay, and so forth. AND I would love to have an S1 with a bad motor next to my nicely running S2 rather than my sportster... Too bad I ain't gots no more money... (Message edited by phelan on May 21, 2008) | ||
| Classicbuells |
Plenty more S1's out there. Just a few metal flakes of failed roller bearing circulating around the rebuilt motor will shorten the life of the "new" bearings by orders of magnitude. Walk on by....... | ||
| Toona |
I haven't been able to contact the seller, yet. -1 I did find one in central Michigan, but that's a long way from me in PA | ||
| Mark61 |
Toona, I will be up Saturday on my S3 so you can have a look and or try it on for size. mark61 | ||
| Toona |
Sweet, Thanks Radar | ||
| Igneroid |
The tuber is raw, unrefined, shakes, makes noise, smells bad, pisses off pedestrians and scares small children and pets. It's awesome. Quote of the day!! Two thumbs up from the pollack.....} |
