| Author | Message | ||
     Johnboy777 |
Anyone try a higher square idle value for the rear cylinder than the front. I was re-reading Steve Trumbul's Tuning Guide where he mentioned that the rear cylinder would typically get more fuel because it runs hotter. So I tried the following, that at first blush appears to further smooth out the idle: FRONT 76 76 76 76 REAR 78 78 78 78 Any thoughts on this? John | ||
| Uly1080 |
So I guess no one else has tried it. Any recent observations? Did you leave it or change it back? I read the tuning manual the same way, but it seemed contradictory to what everyone here was doing, and what was already loaded into the fuel maps.  | ||
| Rotorhead |
I have compared my race map to my stock map at the 15% 800 and 1000 line. The race map is 7 and 8 points leaner on the race ECM than the stock. Also the rear on both maps are leaner than the fronts? It all kind of backwards or is it just me? Trying to understand it hurts my head I'm going riding. lean = heat and power Right? rich = cool and more gas stops? | ||
| Uly1080 |
What really need is a signal...like the Batman light...to summon the wisdom of Gunter or Al when needed. | ||
| Alex |
All stock ECUs have the "Closed Loop at Idle" function enabled. That means that the ECU will hunt for a 14.7 AF value via the o2-sensor no matter what values You write into the lower cells (this of course is only true for the rear cylinder). You will probably get a better idle behavior when the cell values itself result in a 14.7 AF on their own as less regulation action of the ECU is required. You may need different values for the front cylinder. If You want to know You will have to measure. Remember: the o2-sensor only watches the rear cylinder. So the AF values of the front cylinder can be totally different with using identical numbers for the front and rear fuel map. Regards Alex M-TeK Engineering | ||
| Uly1080 |
While I realize that idle is closed loop, start-up/warm-up are not (if I'm not mistaken). I'm sure that the effectiveness of the "Square Idle" is debatable, but I've definitely noticed improvements during start-up and while the bike is warming in open loop prior to going closed loop and settling into a true idle. To achieve this I also reduced the TPS value to correspond with the desired fuel cells, and have since been very pleased with the results, and without any funky AFV skew. I am no expert on this, so any thoughts would be welcome. Alex, thanks for your input. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Sorry Uly1080, missed your question. Yes, the reverse square remains (76 Square front - 78 Square rear). Treadmark's Square Idle has made an unbelievable (positive) difference in the overall drivability of the bike. I also fattened up the center section of the map in the 1900, 2400 & 2900 area based on a Buell tech's observation that the bike was too lean in the 1,800 -- 2200 area of the map. Fattening this area up helped a great deal, BTW. The bike will idle down to 2,000 very well and accelerate of idle waaaay better. The bottom line here is that I can not intelligently speak to why everything I have done works, only that it does - also, I have never LEANED anything down, only fattened up the map (always, always in baby steps). John H. . (Message edited by johnboy777 on April 26, 2008) | ||
| Uly1080 |
Thanks JB. Glad to hear you're getting the results you were after.  | ||
| Id073897 |
I'm sure that the effectiveness of the "Square Idle" is debatable, It's not debatable, IMO, because it's perfectly clear what's happening: a change in RPM does not lead to a change in fuel and thus keeps the idle steady. If you are in open loop, the only input into fuel IS the map, as no adjustment is active. (And if, then the dead time leads to a similar effect.) But, OTOH, arguing that the reverse square is based on temperature ("cooling" ) reasons does not really fit with warmup conditions. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Clot |
I tried to get the square idle working yesterday but just couldn't manage to get the rpms settled. I started with averaging the four cells front and rear and then adjusting up from there. However, I just couldn't find a point where it would smooth out. Any thoughts? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Hey Clot, For me at least, I started too low (because my bike is 100% stock, I thought I would need lower #'s), thinking I could go up, but it did not settle in until I was at 76 Front /74 Rear. (close to Treadmarks numbers IIRC???) Forget about your TPS numbers/values for now, start at/with the above and set the RPM at about 1,100 and go down from there. Make sure you are NOT starting with a fresh TPS/AFV reset - if you are, ride it at 3,200 or so steady (no load/flat road) for 5-7 Min. plus. Make sure your engine is warmed up, as well. Then try the 76 front/ 74 rear and 1,100 rpm and decrease your rpm from there until you are in (running in) the appropriate 4 cells in the front map. I assume you already understand which cells those are ?? If your values in the cells are too low it takes forever to adjust them up (i.e., trial and error method)GRRRR! Don't forget, if what I am telling you does NOT work for you, you can always go back to stock and start over. Also, I assume you are burning the new map in correctly. BTW, you do NOT need to reset the TPS/AFV every time you burn in a new map. I spent a whole day figuring that out. D'uh!!! Also, it does NOT matter where your TPS values end up ultimately - the ServiceManual states a TPS of 5.2 (or whatever the hell it is) just to get you in the ballpark so that it will start and idle until you can set the proper idle.... for the most part, forget about TPS values, they don't mean anything (at this point, with regard to the above). Lastly, make sure to keep the Buell gods happy ... think only pure thoughts.  John. . (Message edited by johnboy777 on April 26, 2008) | ||
| Clot |
Awesome, thanks John. Yeah, I do understand the process and the use of ECM spy, just couldn't get the damn think to sit still I ended up bumping the numbers up a lot to see what happened and it actually idled lower (too much fuel?). At that point quit and reset the maps. Will give your process a try. |
