| Author | Message | ||
     Spectrum |
Court, The data was only gathered from BadWeb. I will continue to update it as I found relevant posts. For example, I found two new owners this morning. You will see those reflected the the spreadsheet I send you. Yes we agree about the data and thank you for pointing out that we need to be careful about drawing conclusions. | ||
| Spatten1 |
It is however appropriate to point out that the tasting was conducted from a single slice of the pie and a small one at that. True. This is what statistical analysis is all about. Sampling 100% would not be statistical analysis. The question would be if there is some reason to believe that this sample is different than the general population in an aspect that would affect the data in question. If not, it is certainly a good sample size. If so, what are the key traits that would make this sample different then the general population? That would be my focus if I were trying to make a case that this is not a significant sample size and a representation of the whole of 1125 owners. | ||
| Baggermike |
Hi Court I did not want to post on the charging system issue anymore but had to so you have the facts. 1- all the heated gear plugs together and then plugs into the battery tender cable so is one connection and have not use anything other than my heated jacket liner since late Jan early Feb. 2- gps takes hardly any power. 3- volt meter shift light is one unit and leds and takes very little power. 4- led running lights saved 9 watts. this is what I had done to the bike before getting my bike tested and did not disconnect anything. A couple of weeks ago after my bike was tested for a week at the place BMC had me bring it to I installed the, 5- hid lights. what I have done the last couple of day are, 6- led tail light. 7- brake light flasher. 8- horn. 9- electropods. this comes down to simple math when it comes to charging systems, you add items that saves power or add items that uses power, I have freed up power not taken away. I have not replaced turn signals. I have no radar detector. and I never disconnected anything, in January I did hook up all my heated gear at the dealership to see if that would show something wrong and they had there computer hooked up to the bike and volt meter and they told me the bike would was good and would run all my gear, I only had used my jacket liner and gloves on the way home not the pants liner and socks and had a dead battery when I got home. the only heated gear I have used since that day is the heated jacket liner that is 90 watts, the bikes high beams are 70 watts and heated grips that I do not have are rated at 36 watts, when I rode with the 90 watt jacket liner I did not use the high beams. The bike is designed to ride with high beams and heated grips over 3000 rpms and that comes out to 106 watts, the shift light I have programed to come on at 4000 rpm to let my know what rpms I ride at so I should not have a problem but do, The jacket liner has not been used for a long time now. the leds I replaced gave me extra watts to run extra things like the gps. the hid lights are the same 35 watts. the shift light volt meter is led and one unit. so the math works out that the bike should be able to ride over 3000 rpms with out discharging but does and I now I know why, BAD VOLTAGE REGULATOR. So now you know the facts of what I have done and when I have done them. Mike | ||
| Ducxl |
If you sample 100 bad out of 1000 that's 10% bad. If you sample 10 bad out of 100 that's 10% bad. If you sample 1 bad out of 10 that's 10% bad. Sampling the Badweb community to me seems an accurate statistical analysis. Unless you want to skew the data one way or another.And that would dirty the whole excercise (Message edited by ducxl on April 13, 2008) | ||
| Ducxl |
I didn't want to be disrespectful of fine folks hence,my edit above | ||
| Court |
>>>I didn't want to be disrespectful of fine folks hence,my edit above Ditto. I deleted two of mine. I've made my point. | ||
| Baggermike |
Court this is why I said the service department sucks. I was warned about one guy there that does not like Buells, I talked to a guy in the service department monday and asked if he could get the specs from buell and if thursday was a good day to bring my bike in and have my bike check out and he said yes, I found out thursday is his day off every week, so he blew me off on purpose, must be the guy I was warned about. I also found out that he could have went online and got the specs, this is why I said the service department sucks anyone of those guys could have went on line and got the specs and tested my bike. I got my specs else were tested the bike my self and the voltage regulator is bad, now trying to run all my heated gear might have damaged it by what I have read and been told, so if you hook up to much accessories it can harm the charging system and I think this is what happened. so I know what the problem is and will fix it myself, I can get a V R for less than seventy dollars so I am calling the dealership and see if they will give me one, if not I will buy one. I do not think what the service guy did was right, so I got there thursday he was not there and no one knew anything, I just found out that any dealership service techs could have gotten that info. Anyway I got the specs I needed else were and tested my bike and the V R is bad so I just need to replace it. I can not believe I have gone through so much B S to find such simple answers. Mike | ||
| Court |
The voltage regulator is easy to get. Your dealer can have it in less than 72 hours. Let us know how it goes. I may have a spare about . . . let me know if you have a problem. I'd suggest that, having made all those measurements and recording the data that you CHANGE NOTHING for the next 1,000 miles. Get the new voltage regulator on and make a series of measurements. I think you've kinda been your own worst enemy in troubleshooting this and here is your big chance to "freeze" some of the variables and get some meaningful data. It will be interesting to see what you find and to see if any other 1125R has had any similar issues. | ||
| Crowley |
Hi Court, there's a few bikes in the UK with electrical issues. My battery discharged to 4.87v after standing 3 days, as did the demo bike of the dealer I bought it from. My charge rate sometimes decreases as the revs rise and yesterday the fuel pump cycled and pressurised the fuel line a minute or so after I'd turned the bike off! A person from the BMC told me the issues were understood, so I await a remedy. I also heard of a 3rd dealer demo bike with problems today. The number of bikes in the UK at present can probably be counted on both hands. Check out the threads on UKBEG.COM in 'Buell Chat' Apart from that, it's an awsome bike   (Message edited by crowley on April 13, 2008) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Hmmmm....SPatten add two more to your data collection. Can someone tell me why sampling the Badweb community is being dismissed by some? Seems to me like it would be a good sample as we have members from all areas, both geographically and chronologically. | ||
| Baggermike |
Thanks Court, I am calling tomorrow and hopefully get a new one with out having any problems, all I have planned is to add the corbin seat, kick ash air box cover, grips and voltage regulator that I can get all these parts from a dealership one the web at really good prices, I might do an exhaust, I do know this that most break downs are electrical so I do not want to add anything else electrical so I should have no more problems once replaced. Mike | ||
| Court |
>>>>Can someone tell me why sampling the Badweb community is being dismissed by some? I'd urge you to go back and look but as best I can tell no one has dismissed sampling the Badweb community. The discussion was that the Badweb coomunity is not necessarily representative of the Buell community. Don't fool yoursefl, it's akin to polling F-150 owners and making a Ford-wide change in tire sizes. Badweb is a fun place with lots of information. My bet is that a trend on Badweb MAY (as in could possibly) be a sign of one in the general population. If you want to base it on geography of course we are going to need more bikes from Detroit (largest sales of Sportbikes) and Pennsylvania (number of dealers). Nobody . . . in all candor. . . is dismissing anything. . . . just , after years of doing this . . perhaps a bit less hasty to leap to conclusions I've solved many a Buell problem over the years and every time I was sure I knew what it was based on CompuServe, B.R.A.G. or any other sample (with the exception of the Canadian 3 prong flasher fiasco with Her Majesty's Ministrey of Transport) I've been dead wrong. Data is our friend. Mike: I get the impression from your post that you have not ordered the Voltage Regulator. Did the dealer determine it was bad but not order it? If you have any problem getting it let me know. If fact, I'd be very interested in knowing what day you order it and what day you receive it. Court | ||
| Baggermike |
Hi Court my dealership service department did not test the bike, the guy blew me off by not being there, I also found out that any harley tech can get the specs that were needed by going online to Harley Buell, I got them by someone else and did the testing myself, I asked the dealerships service tech monday if he had the specs to test the bike or if he could he get the specs, he said he would call Buell and sounded like frustrated or something, did not sound like he wanted to be bothered by it, I asked him if thursday would be a good day to bring the bike in and have it tested, he said yes knowing he does not work on thursday, nobody else had any idea what the specs were and told me he would be back friday and to call him, I got what I needed by someone else and did the testing my self and the stator is fine and the voltage regulator is bad, I also do not have a grounding problem I tested that to, all I been asking for was numbers so I could test and find out for myself if something was wrong, BMC had me bring it to a dealership by for this and was a waste of my time they were suppose to give me paperwork and did not, BMC told me two weeks later that they would send me specs and did not, I am calling my dealership manager tomorrow and explain to him what has happened and that I got the info else where and tested the bike according to the specs and the voltage regulator is bad, now if they send me one that is a good dealership, if not they lost a customer and I will buy one next month, I have a bunch of parts that I want from buell and can get 15% off on my birthday and have it delivered free, so I am waiting to next month to order the parts, if I have to buy it I will buy it next month when I get everything else. Mike | ||
| Ponti1 |
we are going to need more bikes from...Pennsylvania (number of dealers). Count me in! Mine's been parked (sadly) for the last six days. Just checked it, and it's reading 12.76v. Will keep an eye on it as the rain continues, and let the community know if anything changes.} (Message edited by ponti1 on April 13, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
One very important statistical consideration for taking any sample of any problem-related issues from BadWeB is that folks not having problems are MUCH less likely to post. In fact quite a few folks only post for the first time when they are trying to troubleshoot an issue. That one fact renders any sample or statistical analysis of problems reported on BadWeB absolutely entirely, statistically speaking, invalid. It is not a random sample, it is a sample from a population highly biased towards those most likely to report a problem. The one very valid point though is that there are indeed a statistically significant number of electrical problems occuring with the 1125R. A side note, I don't trust battery tender, the brand. Had one that simply didn't work, let the battery discharge to nothing. Sample size is one of one or according to some here, 100%.  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Sample size is one of one or according to some here, 100%. When your bike is affected, that's the only sample that matters. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I had a great statistics professor... he dropped a lot of acid, but he sure knew his stuff. I had two important takeaways.... 1) If you get 32 random samples, you can tell a staggering amount about the population as a whole. He called it the most startling discovery in the history of mathematics, and I am inclined to agree. 2) It borders on impossible to get truly random data. Two critical pieces of information to live by. | ||
| Court |
Well. . . the good news is that it is a more ordered, less random world. If . . . and this is just me . . . your lowly construction guy . . . but . . if I had an 1125R that had experienced ANY electrical problem, I'd be calling my AUTHORIZED BUELL DEALER and asking about the NEW INFORMATION they just got from Buell. See you Monday. I have to tell you . . . . these guys are impressive. That's just an . . . . er, . . . uh "random" thought. | ||
| Bobup |
information that maybe my 1125 helped supply?? just maybe?? LOL http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/353007.html?1208229378 (Message edited by bobup on April 14, 2008) Blake fix hyperlink  (Message edited by blake on April 15, 2008) | ||
| Spectrum |
Thanks for the tip Court and possibly Bobup for sacrificing his ECM to the battery gods!  | ||
| Reepicheep |
The world is random till you try and measure it. Then all of a sudden you start measuring attributes of your measuring process along with the real data, and statistics amplifies and reflects that just as well as it reflects the real thing you are trying to measure. Cryptography has the same problem, whoda thunk it would be so hard to get a computer to pick a random number? Newer Linux kernels have the coolest approach I have seen yet... you open a virtual file in a special place (/dev/random) and read data... the kernel won't give you that data until it has accumulated a sufficient level of entropy from other unrelated processing... so it actually runs faster when your CPU is more heavily loaded. Even then, on a 8 CPU box, it takes a few minutes to generate 10,000 keys for 256bit AES encryption... I like it when Court has "random" news | ||
| Court |
Gosh . . . ya beat me to it . . . I was just getting ready to say that! We need to display your head at Homecoming. I think between Blake, you and I we should have out math books taken away. My wife and I were "discussing" last night and she kept trying to convince me that Florence Nightengale was famous for medicine. I, of course, declared hogwash, "she was a famous mathmatician" who developed the polar area diagram and put her math work to use in medicine. Just like Beyes. Some of you know him from the famed "game show paradox" but he was a Clergyman and all his writings, save his famed one (I love to read dry crud) on the knowledge of an outcome to effect the probability of future outcomes, were on religion. It's a really fun world. Sometimes random - sometimes ordered - always fascinating. | ||
| Blake |
The variance in topic of this thread is following the typical BadWeB standard deviation. ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Court |
Or non-standard . . . anyway. . . cool news. Lots of folks working very hard. See ya Monday! | ||
| Reepicheep |
I hate that Monty Hall math problem. I know the right answer, and I have proven it right, but it just feels wrong... The problem is this: You have three doors to pick. One has a prize, the other two are empty. You pick one door. Monty Hall opens one of the two remaining doors, and shows you it is empty. So are you better off sticking with your original door? Or switching your guess? I now know the right answer, and can even give a nice succinct summary of why it is true. But it feels really wrong, and I can give another nice succinct summary for the other (proven wrong) answer. I was talking to my 9 year old son, and told him how when I was young, that I would get freaked out trying to think about the fact that the universe is infinitely large. He (and my wife) had a good laugh with me about it. Two days later, he came back to me and said he was freaked out about it as well. Atta boy! | ||
| Blake |
Bill, This--see part entitled "To Switch or Not To Switch"--shall hopefully set you at ease wrt the Monty Hall math problem.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
That is a nice succinct graphical illustration of the right answer. Heres where I start to get my head tilt... Scenario 1: Person A chooses one of three doors (completely randomly). One of the remaining two "looser" doors was eliminated. Person A now has two doors, one chosen, and needs to decide to stick with their door or switch. Scenario 2: Person B has two doors, one choosen and assigned to them randomly. Person B now has now has two doors, one chosen, and needs to decide to stick with their door or switch. How does the second scenario know it is different then the first scenario? Aiighhh! It hurts my head! Why does the first person only have a 1/3 chance of winning by sticking with the current door, but the second person has a 1/2 chance of winning by sticking with the current door? Aiighhhhhhh! There are two doors with two states, no matter how you decide to stay with your current pick or switch, "how you got to that point" shouldn't matter. But it does. That *really* bugs me. And don't get me started about Quantum physics.  | ||
| Court |
>>>And don't get me started about Quantum physics.  Still time for you to come help with my finals . . . turned in one project last week, 49 page paper yesterday and 15 days left till final term paper due and party time. | ||
| Mbsween |
You guys are at least 6 sigmas from the mean Reep, I learned the hard way at Clarkson (then College) University that following your gut in a math/engineering exercise was a sure way to an F........ just remember to "use the math Luke" (Message edited by mbsween on April 15, 2008) | ||
| Slaughter |
OK you've flipped a coin and the past 6 flips it has come up heads, what are the odds of a "tails" on the next toss? You flip the coin two more times and it AGAIN comes up heads both times - making 8 straight heads. What are the odds of a "tails" on the very next toss? (If you have to think about the answers, you are also very likely to be a regular supporter of your state lottery) (Message edited by slaughter on April 15, 2008) (Message edited by slaughter on April 15, 2008) |
