| Author | Message | ||
     Prof_stack |
Here is an XB Motor Mount with 5,000 miles:  For reference, here is a good mount with 2,600 miles:  The top mount is being replaced under warranty. Anybody here know of any problems with the mounts on the XB's? | ||
| Blake |
Do you know of any other failures? If not I need to change the title of the thread as it leads one to believe there is a rash of such failures when in fact this is the first I've heard. | ||
| Court |
At the very least, I'd say linguistics would dictate loosing the "s" since it's not plural. In fact, given the propensity of folks to escalate XB concerns I'd change the thread to "Out of >10,000 Buell XB's made, only 1 (less than .001%) has exhibited any motor mount problem" (click here to see that RARE XB with a problem. Please folks.... The last "inherent design flaw" I chased was more related to the placement of a rock at Deal's Gap than a failing of the engineers to design the wheel. Court P.S. - what did the dealer say/do about this concnern? | ||
| Darthane |
The last "inherent design flaw" I chased was more related to the placement of a rock at Deal's Gap than a failing of the engineers to design the wheel. <~~Court Eh? In any event, my motor mounts are all (visually, at least) fine after over 11,600 miles. That one is TRASHED, though...1000 too many wheelies? Bryan | ||
| Prof_stack |
Blake, it was late when I created the thread.  Go ahead and put a ? mark in the title. That would be more accurate. I know of 2 such XB's with the failed motor mount. Not enough to warrant alarm but I think enough for people to look at their XB (which they are hopefully doing anyway) and make sure. The bottom photo was from my XB9S. Prof | ||
| Blake |
Do you know the circumstances involving the two failures you mention? That makes a big difference. Seems pretty obvious that a hard landing from a wheelie would be the worst case axial loading for the front isolator. No big deal, replace the isolator. You can pop a tire hitting a curb. All failures are not problems. If they are caused by abuse or accident and have no safety implication, they certainly should not be implied to be problematic should they? Thanks for taking the time to post the pics though. I'm curious, what does it take to replace the front isolator? | ||
| Aaron |
I'd say it's a good excuse to pull the motor out and make it a 1200  | ||
| Blake |
You know, the more I think about it the more I feel the need to make a little speach here. We are all interested in knowing the score concerning the quality and reliability of the new Buell models. If we learn of a failure, we should share information about it. But to be fair and accurate, we absolutely must also endeavor to research and communicate all the pertinent facts surrounding each failure. I could post a picture of a failed, broken in two pieces, front axle from my first '97 Cyclone. I could do the same for a broken front engine mount that got yanked out of the cylinder head. Without any explanation readers might think the parts or the design or quality was at fault. It would be important for me to explain that the bike turned into a 500 LB airborn cartwheel at 70 mph. Now, I am not claiming that the above mentioned front isolator failures are due to abuse or accident. Though the engineer in me suspects some form of overly harsh treatment is to blame, I don't really know. Without any explanation we cannot hope to draw any meaningful conclusion other than... isolator broken... needs fixed. It would also be nice to know how the condition was first detected. Was there a vibration, a noise, poor handling, what? I'm hoping our friend the professor can fill in some of the blanks on this, and that in the future we can all be more thorough in reporting problems. Finally... does anyone else know of ANY such failures? If you do, please document them here. If possible, please provide all pertinent information including serial number of the bike (VIN). Why the VIN? No it is not for any insidious reason, simply to allow any possible batch correlation. edited by blake on July 01, 2003 | ||
| Court |
Blake: Well put and I second that with prejudice toward no one. The last, as I said, "inherent design flaw" that was a "threat to life" of a Bueller had to do with contact induced physical damage to the motorcycle. Your crashing your motorcycle does not call into question Buells wheel design. As a fellow who knows the guy who does the requistite "slap down wheelie" testing in the certification process, I assure that Buell has demonstrated to the Govt's satisfaction that your Buell can have the living piss beat out of it. You will NEVER land a wheelie harder than Tommy does on purpose. So....as Blake said...FACTS PLEASE. | ||
| Prof_stack |
So....as Blake said...FACTS PLEASE. You bet. Again, my intent was not to alarm, but to find out if any patterns exist. Personally I don't think so, but I figured folks on this great board would appreciate knowing of it. Judd's XB9 (top photo motor mount) has been ridden less vigorously than one might imagine looking at the photo, according to him. Is that the truth? I imagine so, but have no way of knowing for sure. Again Blake, rename the thread with a ? mark at the end, since that was my real motivation. Thanks.  | ||
| Jim_witt |
Blake, I totally agree and understand what you're asking but keep something else in mind too. I've been on this site since day one and all the Buell loyalist were in total denial when Buell problems were posted. Just an observation from an old dude …… a few folks seem awful defensive when anything is posted related to reliability, possible failures or lack of performance. I like my Buells just as much as any other enthusiast but I'm also open minded. The only reason I'm bringing this up is it's my opinion a lot enthusiasts won't or don't get involved here simply because of that mind set. No, I don't want to debate it, just expressing what I see via my rose colored glasses. Out'a here,  -JW:> | ||
| Blake |
Jim, I'm not seeing your point. Also, maybe you can show me a single example in the archives illustrating the "denial" of which you speak? I can't possibly imagine how anyone who reads this forum could manage to be in denial of the various problems suffered by Buell motorcycles. On the contrary, I think many people who happen on the forum probably get the wrong impression, that every single Buell is doomed to suffer repeated terrible failures. That is what I am trying to fight here, because it is categorically and irrefutably false. I mean you have people posting on other forums claiming that the Buell front brake is doomed to fade if ridden aggressively, that it is prone to warpage and not fit for its intended duty. That is complete and utter bullshit. Others claim that it is "normal" for a Buell stator to fail. Again, complete and utter bullshit. We have a pretty darn good collection of failure data residing within the user profiles of BadWeB. I wish everyone would take the time to fill in their information, especially the bike year, model, modifications, and problems fields. We have over 900 users (out of over 3,500) who have filled in their profile fields. That's a pretty good sample size. There are now 16 stator failures (only one was on a post 2001 model) listed and 13 warped front disks. Out of ~900, those numbers hardly qualify as "normal" or a failure that is "prone" to happen. They are in my opinion significant and serious from a total quality view, being close to 2%, but hardly an epidemic as some would have us believe. Danny at Modesto even corroberated the BadWeB data via his parts database for his 450 or so customers. Statistically speaking, the BadWeB data was confirmed. You're gonna like this... Out of over 900 entries, 238 BadWeBrs experienced rockerbox leaks on their Buells. That is not surprising, but it's friggin' outrageous! Unfortunately we are all painfully aware of that egregious problem. Interesting that my personal experience matches closely the stats. Out of my three Buell Cyclones, one suffered a single rockerbox leak. Here's the good news... only 39 of those 238 reporting rockerbox leaks suffered them on '01 models; only 11 were on '02 model Buells; zero for '03 models. Finally, the problem is resolved? We can only hope.  HD/Buell sure bobbled the ball on that one. How about speedo sensors... ~97 individuals reported speedo sensor failures. Another huge bobble of the ball. Isolators?... 13 individuals listed failures; none were on 2001 or later models. Good save Buell! Rear shock failures?... About 60, all of which are through model year 2000. Not a single one from 2001 and later. Buell fought long and hard on shock issues, jeers to WP and Showa, cheers to Buell! Ten primary tensioner fialures, none after 2000. What is really scary are the very few individuals, like Jima4media that have experienced utter relentless hell with their Buells. Anyway, I thought everyone might be interested to hear some of the dirty statistics the user profiles can help generate. If you are reading this and have not updated your profile info, please do.  | ||
| Smadd |
Blake. Done. Unfortunately, with the year of my bike and the miles, I don't remember when things occured. And I'm not one to save every piece of paper to stew over the rest of my life! Don't wanta know how much I'm spending on my hobby! Don't wanta know how much I've spent on tires! Although it'll be another $250 or so this afternoon! | ||
| Glitch |
As a new Bueller, I'd like to add to this conversation, my observation. I've owned my share of bikes since '73, and although ALL my bikes have had some sort of problem or an other, none have come with the stigma of owning a Buell. I have noticed that since the introduction of the XB more nonBuellers are now Buellers with only two of them that I have read about on various message boards are unhappy with their Buell. I have noticed since I bought mine, that I tend to be on the defensive when talking about my bike, I tend to be paranoid, and check my bike more thoroughly (that has got to be a good thing no matter what bike you own). I love my bike, and as Blake told me the feeling hasn't faded (not one bit!). I think that what has happened was maybe a little over zealous, but, well meant. Us new Buellers only want to help other Buellers. I think you can only try to understand the situation new Buellers face. Maybe part of it is we just want to fit in, help out, and spread the passion we all have. Oh, and by the way, I've had less problems with my XB than I had with my Bandit... Did this make any sense? | ||
| Tripper |
Makes perfect sense to me. I always walk with my head down when I enter a biker bar, cover my Buell patch on my sleeve with the opposite hand, then go out and find those suckers with the $30K big twin POS and let them listen to their straight exhaust at the light, then leave them in fumes and dust. By the way, my stator shorted and my rocker boxes have never leaked in 31,000 miles. Just for the data. | ||
| Glitch |
I always walk with my head down Yer kidding ... right? | ||
| Smadd |
Know what ya mean, Glitch. I wish I weren't on the defensive, but I have to admit that I am. And I usually bring it upon myself. An example is a new rider's group I just joined (mostly sportbike riders). I haven't met them yet (will very soon!), and I haven't heard any of their opinions (of Buell). Even though they never asked, I felt compelled to announce to them what I ride, and then expound on the virtues of Buell ownership as I see 'em. Why do I care? Just ride and let ride!! As to Buell's reputation (which is undoubtedly improving, and deservedly so)... anyone here old enough to remember the first Japanese cars that came to the States? They lived with their "throw-away junk" reputation for some time... but that reputation sure didn't last, did it?! Likewise, I'm sure that what we're experiencing will prove to be a short period in the overall scheme of things. Steve | ||
| Hootowl |
For the record, my stator failure was caused (in my opinion) by the green goo that is deposited by redline heavy shockproof oil. | ||
| Blake |
Thanks all. Trip! Entah zee datah into your usah profile, pleaze? Sank you veddy mulch. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Did this make any sense? Glitch: Welcome to the world of Buell. It doesn't have to make sense. Like sex, love, passion and bird hunting, trying to ascribe reason and logic only diminishes the wonder. Ride you Buell and enjoy it. You want sense? Buy a Chevy.  Court | ||
| Dynarider |
01 X1. Zero stator issues No rocker box leaks No shock problems or leaks No warped rotors...hot spotted to hell but no warpage. No isolator problems No failed motor mounts Pretty reliable over all Oh wait I forgot about 2 dropped valves & the final motor grenade | ||
| Elvis |
It makes a lot of sense to try to define if a problem is "isolated" or "common". If there is something that is happening frequently then we might all want to go out and inspect the condition of that part (and buell officials will want to initiate a corrective action if one doesn't currently exist). If one person has observed an occurance, I'm not going to run out and check (unless it's something that could cause catastrophic failure). | ||
| Road_thing |
>>Like sex, love, passion and bird hunting, trying to ascribe reason and logic only diminishes the wonder. Bird hunting? You want to try to ascribe reason and logic to bird hunting?? Let me tell you something about that--I once totaled up my hunting expenses over a whole season of shooting quail in Texas and Mexico, then put the dollar total in the numerator and the number of edible breasts in the denominator. Would you like to know the result? I bet you would. But if I told you, I'd have to kill you! Let's just say that the occasional catastrophic engine failure is a lot cheaper by the pound than pechugo de codorniz! r-t | ||
| Road_thing |
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| Road_thing |
And, no, before you ask, I didn't add in the price of the paint job! r-t | ||
| Roc |
Hootowl - "For the record, my stator failure was caused (in my opinion) by the green goo that is deposited by redline heavy shockproof oil." I agree with that 100%. I had the same thing happen and I suspect the same cause. Sorry about being so off topic. | ||
| Aaron |
Hmm, my S2's primary and gearbox was full of Redline Green Gunk and I had a stator failure recently. What's the suspected cause/effect? | ||
| Hootowl |
If I remember correctly, the consensus here was that the green was not letting the stator shed heat. | ||
| Firemanjim |
I cannot remember if I was using the Redline oil when my stator went out--but extended warranty bought new one. | ||
| Bomber |
smadd -- yessir I can remember when Japanese cars had a bad rap . . . . . even more interesting, to my mind, it the comeback Audi made after they shot themselves in teh foot with the Fox (no sure what it was called elsewhere) . . . if anyone had every told me that the same company that produced Germany's version of a made-on-Monday Vega would produce the TT, and have folks willing to pay a premium for their products, I'da laughed at em I've noticed a lot less Buell-bashing on the street in the last couple of years . . .. "didn't they used to have a lot of problems? got their act squared away" was the last comment made by a big-twin riding new friend | ||
| Tedk |
My front isolater just went with 5k on it. Atleast it's under warranty, but still sucks! | ||
| Darthane |
5K miles? How hard are you on your bike? I'm nearing 14K on mine and even after getting laid down in NC is still in excellent shape. | ||
| Tedk |
No stoppies, no "real" wheelies, I'm not even hard on the front brake! The only abuse I give her is draggin a peg. I think I'll start riding harder. | ||
| Chainsaw |
I thought draggin a peg on an XB was called "crashing"? | ||
| Spike |
Ted's bike is the 2nd XB with a front isolator failure we've seen at Ray Price. When I saw the first failure I was hoping it was a one-time thing caused by the bike being abused in some way. Now that I've seen two this season I fear it may be an actual problem. Buell did supersede the front isolator recently, maybe the new one is better. Ted, did you carry a passenger often? In any case it won't stop me from getting my XB12R. By the way, nice work on those pegs. Mike L. Ray Price HD/Buell '99 Cyclone (sold) '04 XB12R Firebolt (coming soon) '94 Turbo Miata (daily/track toy) | ||
| Mikej |
Any pics of the failed parts, either still in the bike or on a bench? Might be nice to see what the fail mode looks like. Thanks. | ||
| Tedk |
Spike, Yes I carried a passenger frequently. Are you a Buell tech at Ray Price? Glad that someone found the problems my XB had, I knew it wasn't just me! We have to go for a ride when you get the XB12, I'm jealous! | ||
| Spike |
Ted, I handle service parts and service warranty. As it turns out I'm the resident Buell nut at Ray Price. Our main Buell tech is Rich Grant. I'm wondering if carrying a passenger has an effect on the isolator longevity. I noticed that load capacity has changed from 465lbs on the '03 models to 400lbs on the '04 XB9s and 390lbs for the XB12s. Maybe the load capacity is related to the isolators? On a side note, how does your passenger like riding the XB9S? We should definitely go for a ride soon. I sold my Cyclone in July and I've been itching to ride ever since. Mike L. '99 M2 Cyclone (sold) '04 XB12R Firebolt (coming soon!) '94 Turbo Miata (daily/track toy) | ||
| Tedk |
Spike, She actually loves riding on the 9S. But both of us together weigh all of 305 lbs. I just picked up D&D pipe, I may have it installed while bike is in. I'll stop in soon. Tedkt@highstream.net |
