| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
Be wary about drawing conclusions about particular components unless you have isolated them completely and tested them operating alone. Thats why I recommend a Stator test to people first, it is the easiest to isolate and generally the easiest to declare "good" or "dead". Here is what I would want to know if I were in your position (all with stator unplugged). 1) What should be the pin to pin resistance between the pins of the stator when disconnected? Thats two or three measurements. 2) What should the stator output in volts be at various RPM's? Maybe get 4 or 5 different expected values. Thats another block of measurements. 3) The resistance between each stator pin and ground should be more or less infinity, I know that, but would test it. You likely have an intermittent problem... which makes things even worse. Seeing a good result doesn't help you, its seeing a bad result that you want. That really complicates things. You are obsessing about battery voltage. A battery is a rolling chemical reaction, and trying to draw specific and absolute conclusions about a batteries quality or state of charge from minor changes is a fools errand. When diagnosing these types of problems, I am interested in "is the battery charging or is the battery discharging". Thats about as firm a conclusion as I can reach, and even that can be tricky. A battery that just started a bike can "bounce back up" in voltage even when it is not charging. Load testing batteries is tricky, as a fully charged battery has a lot of power it can put out. Trying to draw conclusions about a battery by its voltage is like trying to draw conclusions about a job candidate by what they are wearing. It's at best highly unreliable, and often worse then useless. After the stator test, it gets really hard. The bike won't run right without the battery, and the battery and VR work together to establish a set point for voltage output. And the voltage is not the important part, the current is. But measuring current is a PITA, and the current has an AC component, making it even *more* of a PITA. Sounds like you got some good advice for following the Uly manual. Get that manual (or a copy of the electrical diagnosis section) and grind through the exact tests they describe exactly as they describe them. Don't reach any of your own conclusions or use any shortcuts. Of course, your dealer tech should be doing this... but this is an intermittent failure, so its going to be a PITA for everyone. Entropy sucks. (Message edited by reepicheep on April 09, 2008) | ||
| Baggermike |
I have talked to the service manager and he called Buell because he does not have the info either, I gave him the numbers I got from my testing of the stator which is the easy to test, so three parts the stator, voltage regulator and battery, now my testing of the charging volts at the battery is weird, one day it will go down when increasing rpms and then yesterday it did not and started at a little over 12 volt at the battery at idle and as I increased the rpms and went up to 13.8, I have tested it and read 13.9 at idle and then as I increased the rpms it went down, I do know when the bike was new it was charging in the mid fourteens, now only mid to high thirteens, WHY? I know I will get this worked out and if I have to take every part of the charging system out and send it out to be tested by a company that does this for a living then I will do that. the problem is lack of communication between the dealership and BMC, this is why I am asking you guys for help, if I have some other numbers from the stator then it will be either around the same numbers I got or totally different, then the stator can be ruled out or be the problem, I hope to ride to my dealership tomorrow, it is a 110 mile trip and they are right off of the highway so the battery should be fully charged by riding up there with just my gps and high beams on, if not something is wrong, and if I can get some numbers on the stator then that can be ruled out and then would be the voltage regulator or battery. I am trying to take one step at a time so I think starting at the stator is the one place that is easy to test if the numbers are known then it can be right or wrong and go from there. Mike | ||
| Zac4mac |
Mike, get the reference number they gave you at BMC/CS and ask for an update. Several times I've done that and I get sent to a dedicated tech for that issue. Yesterday I called, after getting a voice-mail from Matt about Loretta. When I gave the girl that answered the ref no., she connected me with Matt. Very smooth and professional. Z | ||
| Court |
>>>>the problem is lack of communication between the dealership and BMC, I suspect, simply based on what I am reading, that the problem is the dealer sharing with you their communication with Buell. If your dealer is reporting a problem with communicating with Buell something would sound quite amiss. Check with the dealer and confirm that. If in fact, that's the case, that can be easily solved. In terms of not hearing what you want from the dealer and coming to the internet, that makes not sense. Reminds me of the story . . . . . . . a guy is walking down a sidewalk . . . sees a fellow searching the ground diligently under a streetlight and stops to help. He asks the guy what he's looking for and the guy tells him he dropped a silver dollar. After a moment the good samaritan says "I don't see a thing, are you sure this is where you dropped it?" To which the guy replies . . . . "No I dropped it about 100' that direction, but the light is so poor it's much easier to search here." I'd unplug your computer, take your NEW bike to the dealer and get it fixed. Battery readings, by the way, are pretty much worthless. It's a matter, as has been pointed out of charging or not charging. Court P.S. - if your dealer tells you that their is a communication problem with Buell let me know . . . I can solve that in under 12 minutes. | ||
| Baggermike |
Hi Court I know that the person I am talking about is reading my post, I reply to post like I am doing now, I talked with the service manager at my dealership Monday and told him what was going on and to call buell and see if he can get a hold of specs for the bike so when I bring it there he will have the specs to test my bike and to see if what is wrong, I am going to the dealership tomorrow, this leaves plenty of time for BMC to get in touch with the service manager. NOW All I wanted is someone to test there stator to see what there readings are at 3000 rpms, this would give me real good info on the stator and how my readings compares to a good charging bike, it is simple to do and would eliminate or confirm one part of the charging system, from there it get complicated. Mike | ||
| 31hunter |
Hey guys,(and gals, gotta be p.c.), I was talking to the mechanic at my dealer and mentioned the charging issue. He informed me that a bulletin was put out regarding a negative connection on the frame. Apparently, the screws used were cross threaded, so when they were tightened, they show that they were torqued appropriately, but in actuality, were not making good contact. Just food for thought. If someone is still having a charging issue, might be a good idea to mention this to your mechanic and have them check it out. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Psst! Whats the frequency Kenneth?  If you are not talking directly with somebody from the factory, then you are not talking directly with somebody from the factory, if you know what I mean. Like you say, it should be a straightforward problem to solve, and it is your dealer that has to solve it, not some anonymous lurker that may or may not be reading some internet forum... Now don't confuse "straightforward" with "easy". You have an intermittent electrical problem on a new model of motorcycle that has been modified from stock and repaired after a wreck. Finding the problem should be straightforward, but it may involve a boatload of time and work. Dropping it off in the morning and hovering nervously in the front lobby demanding to take it back home that night might not be the best approach to resolving an intermittent electrical issue under these circumstances. I wouldn't blame a dealer for not fixing a bike they don't have access to. Their job at this point is not to help you fix it, it is to fix it themselves. It should get fixed though, so I would drop the bike off a the dealer, politely inform them that you will be calling every afternoon for a daily progress report, and ask them not to return the bike until they are confident the problems are resolved. If I didn't feel like they were making satisfactory progress after 2 or 3 days, I would ask them for a case number (or whatever it is) with Buell CS, and call Buell CS to make sure that they feel like the dealer is doing everything possible to resolve the problem. Depending on all that information, I would make the decision to switch to a different dealership. If the dealer rides the bike around for a week and can't reproduce the problem, I would assume the problem is some sort of short in the headset and start looking at what I may be doing to aggravate the problem. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks Hunter, thats a great tip, and consistent with at least one other persons experience getting in there and fussing with that ground wire (and resolving an issue). Score another one for Al... every electrical problem is a grounding problem until proven otherwise... | ||
| Blake |
Sure would be nice if a copy of that bulletin showed up in my mailbox. Blake at BadWeatherBikers daht com | ||
| Court |
>>>Hi Court I know that the person I am talking about is reading my post, That'd be a REALLY long shot . . . good way for a person with a promising career to loose a job. See if you can get them to send you an e-mail that rather than rely on DATA from the dealer they are responding to what they read on the internet. I am seeing what the problem is and it may not be the stator. CALL BUELL CUSTOMER SERVICE or work with your dealer. If you are counting on someone "at Buell" to read a post on the internet and respond I assure you fairies will light on the front lawn first. Harley-Davidson policy in that regard is quite clear as several folks who have lost their jobs can attest. Stop tinkering. Take the motorcycle to the dealer and get it fixed. | ||
| Blake |
Fresno, "Why are batteries draining mysteriously? Can this be a one-time isolated event? Does BMC have a systematic method of testing, diagnosing and/or repairing the electrics on the 1125r?" Was that in answer to my question to you asking "Exactly what information pertaining you your own Buell 1125R motorcycle are you lacking that you feel you need? I'm here to help. Please advise." I can answer some of your questions regardless. Yes, if the cause of the drained battery was a poorly charged battery at delivery of the bike to the customer, it can be a one time isolated incident. I believe that this has occured and has been documented right here on BadWeB. Buell absolutely has a systematic method of testing diagnosign and repairing the 1125R's electrics. The only mysteries are those where the bike has not yet been properly diagnosed by diligent technicians. How many of those cases do you know of? I know of one. I ask again that you limit discussion here to what you know for certain and avoid making indignant demands of what you imagine BMC should be providing to you. If you have demands for BMC, put them in writing and send them off in a letter to BMC. If you have a specific technical problem with your motorcycle that you wish to discuss and troubleshoot/diagnose, then please do share it in detail here. Anything else is just fulfilling a desire to hear yourself talk. (Message edited by blake on April 09, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
Mike, Take your bike to the dealership and tell them what the problem is. If they try to send you off again saying that the bike is performing properly, call me immediately. My number is in the RAN listing. | ||
| Baggermike |
Reepicheep you must be confusing me with someone else because you say I have been in a wreck, NOT TRUE also explain all these accessories I have added, are you talking about a small gps and a small volt meter which hardly take any power, I have seen other bikes with way more than me like a gps, volt meter, heated grips, radar detectors, and 55 watt H11 bulbs. | ||
| Baggermike |
Hi Blake I will do if he has not been in contact with BMC. he said he was calling monday but sounded frustrated, I spoke again with him yesterday and he had not been in contact and gave him my info and asked if he can look at my bike tomorrow, so I am going tomorrow and will tell him if he has not been in contact with BMC to call Blake at the ran number. so he will know what the ran number is? I do not so I guess it is a dealership number. Thanks Blake. Mike | ||
| Ducxl |
Mike,here's the RAN>>>HERE Scroll down to TEXAS and view "Blake" This is getting embarrassing but I have no idea what it all means. There's most of the problem Nobody ask me any questions...Or do...not (Message edited by ducxl on April 09, 2008) | ||
| Baggermike |
Thanks Ducxl did not know about this. Mike | ||
| Reepicheep |
I thought you dumped it in the snow and as such were able to rattle off the a clutch cover and a few other tip over part numbers and cost from memory when somebody else was asking... Or was that a different bike? Its hard to follow sometimes, and I am pretty good at following... I'm just sayin...  No offense or accusations meant, I have been trying to help you from the beginning... and I genuinely like your tenacious and quirky sticktoitiveness already HTFU personality. | ||
| Baggermike |
Reepicheep you said wreck and repair I slid taking off and fell over and I have not fixed it because there is hardly any damage just some cosmetic just like a few other guys falling over, how would that effect the charging system when I have had problems since day one, and I took out the two five watt front running lights with led lights that probably takes a .01 amp and all I have hooked up is a gps and shift light volt meter which does not take hardly and power at all so by switching the running lights to led I saved ten watts and I would be surprised if the gps uses one watt, so the bike is not as you described, Now some guys on here put H11 bulbs in and heated grips, now that is allot of extra watts over the stock bike, that is close to 100 watts with all four lights on and heated grips on, H11 bulbs are 55 not 35 watts and then the heated grips is another 36 watts, go on Buell website and look under FAQ type in electrical and the 1125R system comes up and says that the bike is designed to handle high beams and heated grips over 3000 rpms, I stepped up to riding at 4000 and up so I think that it should be able to handle high beams and my gps no problem, I will see tomorrow what happens when I ride up to my dealership and hope they got answers because I call monday and tuesday to my dealership tech manager and he called buell. so to clear things up I have 35 watt bulbs a garmin zumo 550 and a led shift volt meter that lights up one light at 4000 rpms that way I know it should be charging with high and low beams on, others have added heated grips that take 36 watts plus H11 bulbs so my bike is real close to stock as you can get. Mike Mike | ||
| Court |
Mike: The "amount" of power is likely totally unrelated. I am getting the urge to do what I did with Henrik's bike . . . quick . . someone stop me. | ||
| Two_buells |
ok what did you do to Henrik's bike? | ||
| Baggermike |
I am riding to the dealership now so wish me luck. Mike | ||
| Bobup |
BMC replaced my ECM with no explanation as to what the reason was. I'm leaving it at the dealership to let them take readings for a few days to see if it drains down or not. time will tell.... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
BMC replaced my ECM with no explanation as to what the reason was. Did you ask for an explanation? | ||
| Bobup |
Yes. The dealer/service Mgr. does not have any info. The BMC person that they sent the ECM to passed it on to someone else, who then sent the replacement...with no explanation. I am going to be asking further...even if I have to call BMC myself. | ||
| Doerman |
If the new ECM fixed the problem, why insist on an explanation? Yeah, I know, I'd be curious too. But I believe BMC replaced it for a reason known to them and for the benefit of the customer. Keep in mind, the manufacturers live in a very competitive world and information needs to be held close to the vest at times. Might just be that BMC needs to keep that particular information in the family for the moment. | ||
| Court |
Likely the wrong (CA or EU) ECM . . . . Shit happens. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Likely the wrong (CA or EU) ECM . . . . Shit happens. Funny how you can dismiss such blunders, Court, yet BMC walks on water everywhere else. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
If the new ECM fixed the problem, why insist on an explanation? Yeah, I know, I'd be curious too. But I believe BMC replaced it for a reason known to them and for the benefit of the customer. What? We aren't asking for BMC to disclose trade secrets. Just an explanation of why the brain of the bike has to be replaced. If BMC doesn't disclose why the ECM is being replaced it is complete BS. This secrecy need to END. | ||
| Slypiranna |
BaggerMike Did you make it to the dealer yesterday? | ||
| Court |
>>>Funny how you can dismiss such blunders, Court, yet BMC walks on water everywhere else. It's a wild guess on my part . . . if the bikes fixed and runs . . . well, I' *AM*, as you point out, a funny guy. I'd tend to get on it ride, have fun and never look back. |
