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Spectrum
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 12:00 pm: | 
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Blake just to clarify. You run a great site that provides a great service to the community. I also understand that it's not easy to run such a site and often involves tough decisions and aggravation on your part to keep it focused on it's intended purpose.
I respect and honor your efforts and I for one have personally benefited greatly from what your doing here. I may have sounded unappreciative but I assure you that is not the case.
As for anything getting personal, my apology and Pm sent. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 01:13 pm: |
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>>>>So in otherwords don't say anything negative about Buell?
That'd be an inaccurate assumption. Frankly, I've been perhaps one of the most critical of Buell myself lately.
The salient difference is that there are some folks who arrive at the party with a half-full glass intent on dumping their half full into the glassi of others.
I confess that it wears on me, traditionally the ever-vescent torch carrier for Buell. Problems are part of life. I built about $1.5B worth of construction in New York City last year. Of the $180,000,000 we approved in change orders some were scope creep, the bulk we stuff we flat screwed up.
My job is not blaming. I was brought on for the same reason I was assigned to the Vice Presidents Advance Detail (which when you think about it is kinda like being "deployed") in 1983, to SOLVE problems and make things happen. The greatest compliment I ever got on a review with the service was when Bob Athey penned "Court is a guy who can come up with a marching band with one hour notice at 6am on a Sunday morning".
Problem solving is my forte.
There, on the other end of the continuum live a group of folks who live to showcase, amplify and pile on whenever they see a problem.
Criticism (Blake can correct me if need be) is not discouraged but members of the later group I've described are not welcome. It's like pissing in the punch at a party.
It's, perhaps . . . a bit tougher for me since I get it from both ends. Not only do I get popped from time to time here for refusing to address questions when I don't have or can't share answers but I also take it pretty hard from some of the folks at HD from time to time. In one recent case, where I was thrilled to provide a very quick response to help a Buell owner, I got my ass blasted for interpreting the rules any damn way I pleased and meddling.
I enjoy hearing opinions, not your dirty laundry. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 01:42 pm: |
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"That'd be an inaccurate assumption."
"Posts that are naysaying,".
It was quoted right from Blake's IM (read the original post on this thread)So No, it's not inaccurate. What does that mean to you Court? To me naysaying is negativity.
"To oppose, deny, or take a pessimistic or negative view of"
(Message edited by Buellinachinashop on March 28, 2008)
(Message edited by Buellinachinashop on March 28, 2008) |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 02:29 pm: |
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I quit - again. |
Doerman
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 03:44 pm: |
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Entropy is a fact of life.
Every now and again the custodian has to don the leaf blower and blow out the cobwebs. |
Brad1445
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 08:23 pm: |
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 |
Bearly
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 09:24 pm: |
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It's that kind of stuff that I was talking about. Thanks. |
Elvis
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 11:28 pm: |
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Imagine a party or a bar or a restaurant or a movie theater or a church or a baseball game or just about any gathering you can imagine.
Imagine 99% of the people are there to enjoy time with friends, good food, good drink, good fellowship, good entertainment.
Imagine there is a small group of loudmouths who are shouting, being rude, drawing attention to themselves and distracting from whatever reason it is the rest of the people have gathered.
Would you like to allow the loud-mouths to continue in the name of "freedom" or would you hope the owner or organizer kicks them out?
Personally, I can't think of many places I go that I enjoy listening to the loudmouths. |
Brad1445
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 11:56 pm: |
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Imagine a party or a bar or a restaurant or a movie theater or a church or a baseball game or just about any gathering you can imagine.
_________________________________
This is called a internet forum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum |
Elvis
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 12:04 am: |
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This is called a internet forum.
Yes. This is called an internet forum - a gathering of people. Virtually rather than physically, but still a gathering of people.
What's your point? |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 01:06 am: |
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Yup, a virtual gathering of people...WITH COMMON AND AGREED TO, RULES.
I for one, appreciate the good and accurate information that I've gained on this website. That in itself has made this time worth my time.
The bad though, well, we are all human and need to improve daily I think.
I am the first to admit that I have been guilty of posting bogus/inaccurate information (service manual release/not) that I've jumped the gun on as well...which didn't help anyone. It just caused a mess by being premature in assumptions. My apologies were made then and again now. I would hope that any guilty party here, now matter the case, would come clean on his/her own and without the push from another. I seriously doubt that Blake enjoys contacting members and reminding them of how to be respectful and mindfull here.
I think it is safe to say that the majority of us on badweb (the 1125r link) are here for and of...the 1125 and it's long awaited and wished fourthcoming. Though the reality has not been total 100%, it has been and continues to be the rave. Very little remains for this to be the bike of the year!
Yes, I've got issues with mine but a very few...fewer in fact than with my marriage! They are all workable though and this website does help collect usable and mostly positive data by the wide range of diversity amoung us.
I've read most of what this thread contains and as you all have your opinion, I've mine. If Mr. Blake has these rules in place for HIS website, that we all agreed to, then he must have had a reason for them...none of which is OUR business to slander or impeed upon.
All of us have bad days...even as great as any bike we've ever owned was then, we did have days that were not so happy. But to build up resentment, discontentment and to unleash it here repetivetly at another or directly at Buell on badweb, well, that should go without saying. That was not, by what I understood the rules to be played by.
Constructive criticism though, in my opinion, should be fair game if done so with respectful demeanour in wording. That will only benefit this website and the 1125/Buell effort. Too often things are taken out of context and blood pressures go up a notch...then respond defensively.
In closing, I have to side with Blake and his well thought out concept concerning this website...its intention and very relaxed wording of repremand concerning its players.
This is a good place to be a part of, be human but also respect the others that are here as well and try our best to think what reaction will be caused by our own actions.
Peace and ride safe. |
Brad1445
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 01:07 am: |
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A forum is designed for open discussions of all views. The discussion is the activity, the focus. To listen and to be heard.
If you hear other peoples discussions in a church, bar restaurant it would be rude to listen to them let alone critique them. |
Bad_karma
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 02:21 am: |
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Blake thanks for this board. Thank you for your patience with us. You have always displayed sound judgment dealing with those that seem to cross the line too often. Not questioning your actions. However this tread and the one with the exhaust actions are being taken that I don't understand why. I would like some brief indicator so that it is clear to me why. When things are done in total secrecy it brings that item into question. At least for me it does.
Thanks again
Joe |
Elvis
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 10:02 am: |
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A forum is designed for open discussions of all views.
That's simply not true. A forum is designed for discussions of specific topics in specific ways as determined by moderators of the forum.
If there are no limits, the forum will degrade into an unpleasant place in which a loud minority dominates the discussion and renders the forum useless.
If, in my opinion, I think Erik Buell is actually an alien from the planet Zercovox, should I be allowed to state that opinion over and over again in every thread I can find?
. . . or should the moderators step in and prevent me from doing so?
The moderators should be concerned with maintaining a forum that meets their goals . . . not freedom of expression at all costs.
Participants can then choose to read and post on that forum or not. That's where the freedom is.
Blake's management has, in my opinion, created the best environment for the discussion of topics related to Buell on the internet, so, while it's not perfect, I support Blake and encourage him to continue managing in the way that he has in the past and that has made the site what it is today. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 10:27 am: |
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+++ Elvis
Contact!
Z |
Brad1445
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 12:37 pm: |
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If you have ever managed people you may have noticed that your best performers can be a pain in the but. No problem will ever be fixed without HONEST communication. Honest sometimes hurts. The 112R seems to have made people defensive to a whole new level. If we use George Bush's you either with us or without us mentality, well... You see where that gets you.
Buell, and for that fact any company will learn more form one seriously empathetic point that 1,000 pointless accolades. So they don't always come in pretty little packages with bows, so what? Take the gift get better and move on.
If the discussion flows naturally and Buell is receptive WE ALL WIN.
WE get the bikes we want from the company we prefer, and they get to remain profitable. This is an important time in history with the economy. I think Buell deserves the respect of honesty that will ultimately help them discover things quickly so they may rectify them quickly.
Problems are not the issue, its how we handle than that can be an problem or an opportunity. Doest mater if its, Flooding, Charging, Boiling gas, Over filled oil, No service manual, dead batteries, fuel smells, broken belts, aesthetics, lighting, rear brakes, clutch slave leaking, stalls at low speeds , crooked tail lights, thrown trouble codes, cracked or vibrating mirror, power output, frame welds, dirty intakes, extra long service stays, passenger heat etc.
We all want the same thing a successful BMC. WE all love that we now have our dream engine. Don't stifle one of the few available areas where there is discussions on this little known gem the Buell. In addition to buying the products (I have bought 5 New) give Buell every tool they need to be the best, the truth.
Keep in mind the actual content of the message not just the delivery method. You have to do that to keep your best employees. Buell as the only American manufacture of sport bikes needs every advantage, and is due the unvarnished truthful information good and bad. |
Doerman
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 01:06 pm: |
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Well written and thought out post Brad.
However, there is a flaw in the premise. Buell does not take input from this site. Their feedback and input on issues comes predominately from the dealers post sale and from events (like IMS and Inside pass) pre sale.
You made a list of issues that owners have experienced so far from what's been discussed on this site. That is probably pretty comprehensive. But I'll bet Buell knows a lot more about those issues through interaction with the dealers than through here. They will get statistical information (units sold/units w/specific issue) something not possible from this site. As an example, the Charging Thread is now over 500 posts long and I can not glean any real facts from them other than a couple of guys are having or has had problems with the charging system.
There's another point too which has to do with the effect of "rubbernecking". When somebody posts up an issue other pile on and the discussion gets derailed. The derailment is more likely when somebody get their panties in a twist. What I am writing here further derails from the initial objective of this post.
Which simply is:
- Custodian sees a person getting out of hand and reprimands privately
- Person gets torqued off and shares private communication with the public
... and that's bad form... anywhere |
Brad1445
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 01:14 pm: |
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tru dat |
Unibear12r
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 03:12 pm: |
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Well put Asbjorn! |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 04:59 pm: |
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Brad,
If you are trying to host a productive forum, one seeking to provide benefit to its members, yet you have a participant who routinely blurts out naysaying foolishness of no value, how is that benefitting the forum?
I think that if I were a "Stalin" as you seem to assert, then I would simply ban everyone with whom I disagreed or who criticizes me and/or the management of the forum. If you indeed believe that such a view represents reality, then you are sadly and egregiously misinformed.
Frankly, I think some folks just cannot stand to not be the center of attention. Look at ME! Look at ME! ME! ME! Look at ME! Even that's okay if they are really funny, or entertaining, or enlightening/informative. When they are just a naysaying distraction it is just sucky and irritating and detracts from the forum, no?
Thanks all. Interesting discussion. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 05:14 pm: |
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Spectrum,
You are a man of rare honor and integrity. Thanks for your thoughtful reconsideration. I'll try to warrant deserving it. 
The same goes for all of you who voice support for our policies here. Your support means a LOT and makes the effort expended on behalf of the place worth it.
So thanks agian to all who voice support for what we try to do here. It really is deeply disconcerting to me that some folks imagine that I and/or the other custodians are out to stifle valid complaint. We are absolutely 100% not about that at all.
Brad and others questioning our motives:
The deal is that when the modus operandi of anyone here becomes one of just plain bashing or belittling Buell motorcycles, then they don't belong here. That's it.
If you don't like that policy and think that we should support such relentless naysaying nonsense here, well, your view has been heard and entirely rejected and it always will be. In consideration of that, I'd strongly recommend saving your time and effort trying to argue against our "Buell enthusiast" policy any further. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 05:21 pm: |
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Buellinachinashop,
By "naysaying" I am talking about folks who invest too much of their commentary here towards berating, belittling and insulting Buell motorcycles. I don't know where you get the idea that we intend to stifle mere negative dialogue. If you read the board, you'd know immediately that is not the case.
Buells do not make great cruisers.
That is a negative comment.
Buells are not winning in AMA FX.
There's another one.
Buells are not as fast as the Japanese 1000cc repliracers.
Yep, that's another one.
Buells are not as cheap as an SV650.
Yet another.
Which negative statements concerning Buell motorcycles do you imagine we seek to stifle? Give me two examples that you have seen so that I may correct our policy accordingly.
Otherwise...  |
Dentguy
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 05:44 pm: |
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Well put Brad1445 and Doerman.
Everybody keep one thing in mind. I have seen a lot of comments about "the nature of the beast". Sometimes those things due to interaction with other board members turn out to be problems and when bikes are taken to the dealer may get more attention when the dealer is told "I'm not the only one with this problem". Dealers do tell customers on occasion that "that is not a problem, it is normal", when it could be a problem many are experiencing and they just don't know yet.
I agree that Buell knows more about issues through the dealer because that is who they listen to, but many of those issues may not get to the dealer to let buell know about them unless they are discussed here.
Some on here are such enthusiasts about Buells that they may overlook some problems or accept them as "the nature of the beast" and don't want to hear somebody complaining about their problems. Others who are also enthusiast may not accept some of those "nature of the beast" issues and voice their concerns only to get flamed. So let's please keep discussing our problems here even though some get "emotional" so we can tell the dealers about them, it can get back to Buell and they can make things even better. I think I read a comment the other day about taking your problem to Buell and not here. (Not from Blake)
I hope some of that made sense. I am so slow on the computer my typing can't keep up with my thought and I get lost sometimes.
By the way I think Blake has a tough job here trying to balance it all and is doing his best. It may not always seem that way to some, including me. But, I am not in his shoes and it is not my site. He did move a post of mine once into a poo section and it irritated me, but he explained to me that maybe it was a overzealous move (I think those were his words) and I understood. Those things happen.
Steve.
(Message edited by dentguy on March 29, 2008) |
Tijuanajack
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 05:49 pm: |
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Buells not as fast as the Jap 1000ccs, who ever wrote that has not pit their 1125R against one. I had no problem keeping up with them or passing them. Like so many have put that it is hard to stay on two wheels with this bike. I have a lot of fun with mine and get a lot of positive comments about it as well. Especially from bikers who are in their late 50s with Busas ranting about how nice it is that Buell has the Helicon now and they might make the switch. And for the AMA circuit wait till the rest of the season is over. The 1125R is making it name there already here in the US and in Europe. Two thumbs up on 1125R. Blake, the naysayers must be whinning because a 1125R blew by them. |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 07:32 pm: |
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I just don't care about any of this! |
Metalstorm
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 08:32 pm: |
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Nay saying:
These bikes run like crap at low rpms. When is Buell going to get off its ass and fix this problem?
negative in a good way:
I love my bike but there's one small thing that bugs me a little. There's a small yet defined stumble at low rpms. I am taking it to my dealer so that they can see what's up and maybe provide Buell with good details so that they can use this info to improve their otherwise awesome bike.
There's a difference yes?
DISCLAIMER: My bike does not have a stumble. It is perfect in every sense. I was just using that as an example.
Blake, keep up the good work. The vast majority of BadWeB really appreciate it |
Brad1445
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 08:53 pm: |
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lol Metalstrom, I personally have no problem with the first example as it says the same thing as the second example but using a lot less words. I'm not sure the customer need be subservient.
I also want to thanks Blake for providing this place on the web. I may not agree with where the editing line is drawn but its not my call, it is his. Over the years I have enjoyed so much here I'm very grateful for all the info I have received.
On a side not I think it is naive to believe people from Buell are not reading this site. It shows in many post how they are worded, and If not, shame on them as every businessman I know eats up all the information they can get about their business, industry and customers. It's not as if there is 10 Buell Forum web sites to choose from.
I don't think the market is large enough at this time to provide two Buell oriented web sites so we are family and should respect each other as family.
Of course my brother use to pin us down and fart in our faces but thats another discussion. |
Tijuanajack
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 08:57 pm: |
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If anyone is experiencing a stumble at low rpm, has really not messed with performance engines and gearing. For instance, you take a 1988 Mustang GT with a 302 and 2.72 gears, the car runs fine. but if you add a .499 lift cam and do not change the gearing, the Mustang will have a nice low lumpy idle, but will stall and stumble if you stomp it from a rolling start until you get above 1700 rpms. But, when you install a set of 3.73 gears with that cam, you will have one wild ride. If you look at the dyno sheet you notice the 1125R's power band is above 2500rpms. Just check out the sheet under Ratbuell's post on the following link. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/323228.html If I'm wrong on my analogy please someone correct me or add to this. |
Metalstorm
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 09:09 pm: |
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Brad1445, I'm glad I brought a smile to your face. I much prefer to make people laugh rather than piss them off.
The first statement can be easily conceived to mean that all Buells have that problem and that it's all Buell's fault.
The second states that only one particular bike has this problem and the cause of said problem is being searched for.
It doesn't lay blame on anyone or anything because there are yet no facts to be known other than a stumble.
It implies that the author is thinking about the solution rather than the problem
I've learned that communication on the internet is a very tricky and delicate thing what with not having body language or tone of voice to work with.
My own experiences have taught me that wording things in text is much more important than wording things verbally.
On edit: I've actually improved my vocabulary & writing skills since joining this site.
I try like the dickens now to not misspell 
(Message edited by metalstorm on March 29, 2008) |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 07:56 am: |
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Blake and Badweb have done a wonderful job of holding the coupe near the centerline.
It's not easy.
There have been some hugely popular and successful prior forums hit the ditch lacking such skillful management.
It's not so much what you say as how you say it.
Court |
Socoken
| | Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 02:10 pm: |
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When I fist joined this site in 2001, after looping my brand new M2 and looking for parts and info, I was so impressed that I told every Bueller I met about it. Even though not many had heard of it back then, its the opposite now. Now when I go into a different dealership, or meet a fellow Bueller on the road, they often bring up the BADWEB.
This site really is awesome. |
Tijuanajack
| | Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 04:07 pm: |
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Yes, its a great site for Buellers to get to know each other and find out about troubleshooting and customizing. Thanks Blake keep up the good work.
Toby |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 08:00 am: |
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Constructive Criticism:
Can we relocate or at least rename this thread since it has nothing to do with the 1125R? I keep accidentally clicking on it and really have no interest in reading it. If folks think BadWeb politics are bad or corrupt, they should go elsewhere.
Nay saying:
This thread sucks. |
Socoken
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:45 pm: |
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That was an effing riot!!
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