| Author | Message | ||
     Baggermike |
I am a member of A M A and got my monthly magazine and it had an article on Advance Riding Clinic, I thought this school might be of interest to some of you guys, so I thought I would post it, it has a good teaching method so check it out at www.totalcontroltraining.net | ||
| Interex2050 |
I was looking into that and it sounds fantastic, although the one in California is sold out... I guess I will have to wait till next year | ||
| Baggermike |
you can contact them and they might come to your area, I know they have several dates in New York so I just got to pick a date and drive there which is not real far away from boston, I am sure if you got enough guys that wanted to do it they would come to your area. Mike | ||
| Xl1200r |
Mike - they do this course all the time in Troy, NY at the local community college. I'm thinking about doing it but i'm not sure, so maybe i'll see you there. | ||
| Socalbueller |
I signed up for the one in April a few weeks ago. Lee Parks was at the inside pass date at Willow last year. Nice guy and he did a little suspension class that was very informative. I'll let you know how the full class is. | ||
| Baggermike |
Socalbueller did you have to pay up front, I do not know if I can make the April class but what date did you sign up for, let me know all the info I wrote them and have not gotten a reply. Mike | ||
| Socalbueller |
Mike, you do pay for it when you sign up. I am doing the April 19th Adelanto CA one. I have done Keith Code's superbike school level one and two. While that is mainly focused on track riding some of it does cross over to the street. Lee Parks class seems to be the other way around. Looking forward to it. | ||
| Sslowmo |
Socal, I too have done level one and two. Three at the end of the month. Keith's school is about corning not "Track Riding". all what they tell you helps no matter what type of riding you do. I would suggest the Superbike school to anyone that wants to better their riding. But as you that's my .02. Later, Aaron | ||
| Pariah |
Mike, thanks for pointing this out. I've been reading Lee Parks' book, but I didn't realize that he had clinics down here in TX... I'm going next year. Best, Takis | ||
| Court |
I'm a big advocate of starting with Reg Pridmore's C.L.A.S.S. Most folks need to learn to improve their street riding before they start builder racing skills. Yes, I am well aware the two have common elements. Pridmore, Code and Lee Parks are all excellent schools as are many of the other. I got a lot from Reg Pridmore. | ||
| Jaimec |
Court, I've done C.L.A.S.S. for many years and I have to say I got more out of Keith Code's Level 1 training course than out of all the years I did Pridmore's school. When I did Superbike School for the first time, I went with three other long-time MSF Instructors (now known as "Rider Coaches), one of them also a long time Pridmore fan. At the end of the day, we were ALL very impressed with what we'd learned, and how Code structured and ran the class. My buddy who was a committed fan of Pridmore's is now a lifetime fan of Keith Code. Give him a try. He's in the northeast a couple of times a year. Closest Pridmore gets these days is VIR. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Code and Pridmore are in a different league than Lee Parks as far as racing experience. I've ridden on the street with Lee several times including a ride from OC to Laguna for the Superbike races, he ain't Code or Pridmore, but he is a good solid rider. His racing 125s in the 1990s exhibition class is not the same as Superbike or Supersport. That said, back at MC Consumer News, Lee did get tons of exposure to intelligent and analytical riding articles and has made a career of compiling such practices (as well as selling gloves). | ||
| Court |
No argument from me. . . they both have good reputations and if Code were closer, I'd do it. | ||
| Jaimec |
Court, Keith Code will be at Pocono Raceway in May, and Thunderbolt Raceway in New Jersey in August. It doesn't get much closer than that! http://www.superbikeschool.com/schedule/ | ||
| Spatten1 |
Pocono, sweet, he can teach you how to do two wheel drifts over frost heaves and potholes. I love that track, East that is, on a Buell. | ||
| Baggermike |
Jaimec I think I might go with the August superBike school, this will give me plenty of time on my bike so I am really use to it, so I am going to try the ARC course in may or june although it is expensive for just a street riding course and could easily be talked out of going. I also have the penguin school 60 miles away so I am not sure what to do, I want to go on a track to ride this bike really bad and do not want to make mistakes, like speeding on the streets, anyway got other things to worry about for the next couple of month. Mike | ||
| Josh_ |
Parks is great for essential skills, esp for those who won't get on a track. Code is about the most arrogant person I've ever met, but the schools are well organized and you definetly learn what he is there to teach you. Pridmore is much more relaxed and runs a safer school IMO, but over the past 9 years he's also relaxed his instructions and its more of a free-form track day with instructors you can grab than a school. Pridmore didn't leave Cali last year but he is making a few locations this year. I'll be at Total Control in Milwaukee May 18 and Superbike School at Barber 5/31-6/1 and maybe Pridmore's school at Barber (if they ever email me back) June 2/3. Look me up if you go.  | ||
| Jaimec |
Josh, I've met and worked with Pridmore and Code and each is as arrogant as another. When questioned once about his "Body Steering" techniques, Pridmore's response was "And how many of those other 'experts' have won Superbike championships like me?" THAT is "Arrogant" with a capital "A" in my book. In Code's defense, he doesn't just go with opinions... he tests and experiments until he's convinced it's the best way. Then and only then does it enter his curriculum. When I did C.L.A.S.S. we would spend a half hour in the classroom discussing a technique, but then it seemed like "every man for himself" on the track. Whether you practiced what was discussed or not was completely up to you as long as you didn't endanger anyone else. He breaks the class up into two groups, "A" Riders who're more aggressive and have taken the course at least once before, and the "B" Riders who are less aggressive, or new to track riding. By comparison, Code won't even let you out on the track unless you can tell the coach what was discussed in the classroom, what exercise you will be practicing, what the point of it is, and the hand signals to look for from the on-track coaches. You WILL get flagged if you wander from the intended exercise. There are four levels of instruction and you are meant to take them in order. Level IV is tailored specifically around your requirements and works out almost as individualized instruction. Both methods have their plusses and minusses, but I think you'd get as much out of an ordinary, less expensive track day as you would out of Pridmore's far more expensive C.L.A.S.S. Oh, and one of my most memorable experiences would have to be circulating the track on Reg's bike at Watkins Glen. He really does make it seem effortless and gives you a good idea of what you should be shooting for. Unfortunately, I understand he no longer does this. I'd like to try Reg's son's STAR School someday (when I first took C.L.A.S.S. Jason worked with Reg). If I ever hit Lotto, I'd like to do Spencer's school in Vegas, too. | ||
| Baggermike |
Hey guy's has anyone taken the Penguin racing school up here in the north east? I think I am going to start here and is the fastest and cheapest way for me to get on a track which is why I bought this bike, I really want my son to get into racing and I can be his mechanic, it would be cool having my son race. I hope by the end of summer he will be good enough to go to a race school and hopefully take a different school that we both can do so we can do track days together, I want him go at is own pace and see what happens, if he really wants to race like he says he does then that would be cool, I have seen dads pressure there kids to do good and I am not one to do this it takes the fun out of riding, I do want him to be safe and want him to take a advance riding course soon when we both stop having bike problems. Mike | ||
| Court |
Arrogance is a common trait among some of these folks. The good thing is that most of them temper it was damn pleasant personalities. I haven't been to the school in years (frankly Josh is the one who has probably attended more than anyone I know) but both Code and Pridmore have redeeming features. They are both good. I like both Reg and Jason and know them both personally. They are both great riders and great instructors. I've met Keith Code, don't know him well, but know he has a great reputation for the schools he's done over the years. I, and it's a matter of personal preference, prefer the "riding" school to the "racing" school. I'd start with one of the riding schools . . . shame that someone like Reg Kittrelle doesn't teach one. There are two riders I've learned TONS from riding behind . . . Reg Kittrelle and Gary Cravillion. I used to do all the Buell demos at Daytona and spent many 10 hour days following Rusty Goin and Gary Creavillion (who also taught at the Law Enforcement school) and vowed I would never flee from a cop . . . again.  | ||
| Josh_ |
penguin looks like fun and I was going to take it before buying a 1098 (since you can rent one) but wound up at Inside Pass on an 1125R. Yeah, Reg gets touchy when you mention Code or body steering, but he's always open, approachable and easy to understand. Keith has pulled me aside twice and neither time could I figure out what he was trying to tell me. Keith runs a better "school" Reg runs a safer one. With Reg you have to be proactive and grab instructors, with Keith you are assigned an instructor. I've done MSF (twice), MSF Advanced (twice), Reg Pridmore 12 times (10 at Road America, 2 at Barber), Code twice (Barber) and Total Control once. What cracks me up is Code is constantly slamming Reg and "smooth riding" - going to far as saying "what does smooth mean?" and "I'd rather be fast then smooth" yet uses "smooth" himself all the time. I've signed up for Code for 4 days (all at Barber) this summer and am still not decided on Pridmore at Barber. | ||
| Baggermike |
Josh do you race? I am asking because you have been to so many schools and do not know why, I know I will probably drive the instructor crazy with all my questions, I did this when learning martial arts and he would get pissed off because I think he could not answer my questions. Anyway I want to get on a track give it my all with out wiping out, when I was in welding school I would come home take out my cr 125 and had like a mile track and would do like ten laps and go home. I read penguin uses Ducati's but the one's like the xb motors and heard the Ulysses makes a good track bike and that is what my son has. I am hoping for a summer of fun. Mike | ||
| Josh_ |
I don't race. yet ;) I go to schools because I want to ride on a track and I'm too chicken to go to an open track day, Inside Pass at RA was my first. (I did an Inside pass in 06 but it was rained out). That said, I will be hitting some MCRA track days this year. Wish me luck. | ||
| Baggermike |
I wish us both luck, I turn fifty in May and hope to have a good summer with my son. I bought this bike to do track days and drag racing but more track days is what I want, I use to be real good and do not know how I will do, if I do good and my son does good when he is able to go to school we might race single cylinder bikes, took him for a ride tonight because his bike is down with a bad rear wheel, and he loved it and I was not even going that quick or fast I was afraid he would fall off. I think single cylinder bikes is the cheapest way to get into racing, plus I have a blast that I could race and rebuilding as I go, but think a motocross bike would be allot better than the blast could ever be. I have seen Roland Sands build road race bikes from motocross bikes and can be done by buying parts on ebay, but think he is coming out with a kit, and getting use the the power of the 1125 on a track will make me better at a less powerful bike. anyway best of luck the three of us. Mike | ||
| Regkittrelle |
Actually, Court, I do have a school. It's called "The Turn." I teach it on a limited basis to classes of no more than ten. It is a combination of classroom and road work, one day. If anyone would like a brochure, e-mail me at fogrideratcomcastdotnet. BTW: There are numerous excellent schools/classes available (several mentioned here)... and a few that aren't so hot. All of us teach the same thing:the physics of riding, after all, remain constant. The difference is in our target audience and our approach. The "...audience" thing is very important. You want to be sure that the skill/experience level of your fellow students is comparable. If this varies widely there will always be a portion of the class that finds the course less than useful. There is a significant difference between being a competent track rider and a competent street rider; the skill sets are not necessarily interchangeable. "Track days" can make you an excellent track rider (though not always) but can actually degrade your street skills. There are few things more exhilarating than a track day, but don't confuse that experience with street training and, of course, vice versa. The best street riding course (on a track) that I have found is "StreetMasters" out of SoCal, the best track course is Code's "R.A.C.E. School" (not to be confused with his regular courses). The worst thing you can do is attend an unsupervised track day. | ||
| Jaimec |
Josh, I've had the exact opposite experience than you. I've always been able to understand EXACTLY what Code and his coaches are trying to tell me, and when I really pay attention to what they're trying to tell me, son of a gun if it doesn't work. Pridmore, on the other hand, was downright confusing. I'll use his "braking exercise" as an example. First off, he's a big advocate of two-finger braking, which works fine on a brand new motorcycle with modern, well-maintained brakes. But on an older bike you can conceivably pull the lever until you hit your knuckles and you aren't getting maximum braking because if your fingers weren't in the way you could pull the lever that much farther. Also, when I'm stopping, I'm STOPPING. I don't give a rat's ass how smooth it is, I want to stop RIGHT NOW. On most motorcycles that means you are going to have a shitload of front end dive (unless you've got a BMW with telelever or duo-lever, a Bimota Tesi, a Vyrus, or a Yamaha GTS1000). Yet, Reg teaches you to ease up your front brake as you stop to minimize front end dive. If you're easing up the brake, you're NOT stopping as quickly as you can and the odds are you WILL hit what you're trying to avoid. Now, if he were teaching me to SLOW on the track prior to a turn that is a different story. But in this exercise, he is making you STOP. Two very different and contradictory actions. Disclaimer: I've been a certified MSF Instructor from 1990 up till 2005. I lost my certification in 2006 when my primary job didn't afford me enough time to teach the minimum number of courses in two years. | ||
| Regkittrelle |
In case you're not paying close attention:The "Reg" mentioned in the various texts is Reg Pridmore... not me, Reg Kittrelle. | ||
| Jaimec |
Sorry Reg. Yes, PRIDMORE, not Kittrelle!  | ||
| Spatten1 |
Yet, Reg teaches you to ease up your front brake as you stop to minimize front end dive. If you're easing up the brake, you're NOT stopping as quickly as you can and the odds are you WILL hit what you're trying to avoid. Wouldn't it be correct to start easing off the brake before corner entry, continue easing off during trail braking, so the front end has suspension available for mid-corner bumps? Not for an emergency on the street, but for track handling. On my XB I've done poorly without really thinking about the brakes as a progressive input both getting on and off. | ||
| Jaimec |
Scott, That's my point... that's braking to SLOW, not braking to STOP. |
