| Author | Message | ||
     Jmartz |
Jeff, AAron posted a pic of the blast motor sometime ago showing clearly the trans "face" inside the primary. Seems to me that a hole and a surface is all you need, neither all that precise. As in the "door" models, the bolts (and pins?) would provide the alignment. What could HD figured the benefit would be from a doorless engine case? In 1953, a door was added to the original design after access problems forced the issue. I can see why cost, more reliable components and the desire to make life miserable for Baker would prompt this design but a trap door seemed such a good idea that was even extended to the BT's. After having the 6th now for several 1000 miles I do not want to go back to the harder shifting 5, nor would I be inclined to totally disassemble the motor to grind down the apexes of the drum grooves to improve shifting. | ||
| Hoser |
Jose: The "benefit" of manufacturing crankcases without a removable tranmission door would be the cost savings , less machining time . How this benefits the end user ? , I suppose lower price on the showroom floor ( which seems to creep up every year anyway ). I have had Blast crankcases split before , not XB models yet , great care in machining would be essential to convert a crankcase to the pre XB configuration. Maybe "race only" cases could be ordered with this feature , I wouldnt know about that , we are not racing an XB just yet. I am involved with an S1 race program that is going very well at this time , the rider able to run with 600's at the regional level , national level 600's spank this bike hard. The price of a Baker 6 is scary here , we can almost add a second bike to the program for what a six speed sells for !!, so as much as I like the idea of having 6 spds it's not gonna happen any time soon. | ||
| Jprovo |
Jmartz, You'd also have to machine the bolt holes and dowell pin holes. That's the high tolerance area of the operation. I think that serious jigging and fixturing would be required to do the job properly. Then again, it might not even be possible. There might not be enough material to screw the trap-door bolts into the case once you machine away enough material for the door. The doorless engine case is lighter, has less parts (less cost), and is reportedly more rigid than a trap door case. The increased rigidity assists the better shifting that the XB models have. It also gives Blast and XB owners and excuse to bore their cases to accept a 3 13/16 bore when they have a tranny problem. James | ||
| Reepicheep |
WHEEEW! Just finished rebuilding my tranny... this is just the "take it apart, replace the mainshaft, put it back together. The fact that the mainshaft had to come out made it a MUCH bigger job. Effectively a full teardown (only the countershaft, trapdoor, and one gear remained attached). I was able to drive out the mainshaft from the bearing using a piece of PVC pipe and some patient tap tap tapping. Went back in the same way. The bearing seemed fine. So tomorrow, the tranny goes back in the bike, and everything gets buttoned back together. This was, as expected, a monstorous job. Probably the worst yet... with the "oil pump drive gear and discover a bad cam" being a close second. Had I not had to replace the mainshaft and rebuild the 5th gear drive assembly, it would have been much more managable, so those of you with "jumping dogs" don't panic... just that part of the job would not have been bad at all. There was an XB9 at the dealer looking REALLY nice at a really attractive price. I'm tempted to go talk to "the man". What did I say about my Cyclone and "cold dead fingers"...??? Guess I'm on life support... | ||
| Hoser |
James: I agree on the increased rigidity , I think the real reason is cost , with HD being run by accountants and lawyers. Have you ever looked at the cases on a four speed and how the transmission was bolted in on those ? . Thats the way they where made from 1953 to 1990 , not the best but it did the job with four bolts and two dowels , the five speed was a huge improvement . The bolt holes you mentioned are already there and also function as fasteners for the crankcase halves , the dowels would need to be located and machined. | ||
| Reepicheep |
"I got better" (Monty Python and the Holy Grail) Wheee. 10 miles, all gears, all speeds, and no exploding tranmission noises! Has never shifted so well. More details to come... Bill "stunned that I was able to rebuild a transmission and have it run at all" Kilgallon | ||
| Jprovo |
Hoser, I didn't realise that the old trap door bolts are in the same location as the ones that hold the engine cases together on the XB's. Thanks for the info. That certainly simplifies the job a bit is you wanted to add a trap door. I have a '75 Sportster, and I've seen how it's transmission bolts up, I consider the one piece design an improvement unless you're a racer and want to change transmission gear ratios. I agree that cost is an influence too. In fact, a good engineer looks for a way to simplify a product to minimise cost while maintaining or improving performance. It wouldn't suprise me if getting rid of the trap door came out of a brainstorming session on how to make the Blast cheaper and shift better at the same time. James | ||
| Aaron |
Way to go Bill! I ain't buying this line about eliminating the trap door to make it shift better. Ride a freakin' Blast sometime, they shift like a Mack truck. The only reason the XB's shift better is the dual rail shift fork arrangement. I think losing the trap door was purely a cost saving deal, and it's one of the reasons I haven't taken the plunge and bought an XB. It just seems like there's something fundamentally wrong with updating to the latest and greatest thing and giving up things you like about the bikes you have. Not only can I pull the transmission in half an hour, I can see the rear cylinder! And I've got more power! And carburetors! Sigh. Guess I'm a dinosaur. The XB12 is getting closer to getting me to open my wallet, it's got enough good stuff that it's just about overcome the backwards steps they took. But damn, Buell, I'd MUCH rather pay a few bucks more and have a trap door transmission! | ||
| Spooky |
Aaron, could the Blast be updated to the XB shift fork arrangement. Eric  | ||
| Philip |
if they made the cases split horizontally like some bikes ( z1, 750 honda and others) you could pull the motor out, flip it over and access the tranny without pulling the top end. | ||
| Philip |
oops! i forgot about all those cams that would make it tough to engineer a horizontal case. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Quick question for the Gu-Ru's. I did all that tranny work, buttoned it back up, and put about 200 miles on it. Two defects became apparent. First, that front crank nut inside the primary worked its way loose. Is this a sign of a deeper more serious failure, or should I just have cleaned it better before putting on the loktite red and torqued it down tighter? In theory I could have missed the final torqueing all together, but I clearly remember doing it. The shaft looks fine, I caught it early and it makes a terrible racket. I am hoping I just have to clean it up better, loktite it better, and cheat up to the top end of the torque range it asks for. The second issue was with the big seal on the pully side. It popped out and was leaking. I think this was my fault as well, I just pressed it in with my fingers last time and it stuck. As I put it in this time, I had to cut up a heavy plastic cup and use that to pound the seal in tightly, where it seated deeply. I know I did not have it that tight before, so I think this was a case of me just being too gentle. Advice? Suggestions? I am hoping to just put it back together and do it right this time. Gotta have a talk with the chief mechanic, he is getting sloppy.  | ||
| Jmartz |
Did you use red glue and 150 ft. lbs. of torque on the sprocketshaft? Clean it free of oil witn acetone and a tooth brush. The output shaft (5th gear main) seal will need replacement if oil is coming out of there. There is another "seal" more like a plug that fits inside 5th. Check that baby out my motor has kicked it out twice. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks for replying J. I would like to think I used loktite red, and torqued to 150 ft pounds. I remember the torqueing part, and it would be stupid to not use the loktite red... but as I look on the shaft and nut, I can't see any residue. Its all over the countershaft where the clutch pack goes, so I definitely got it there. I do know I was not careful about really cleaning the tranny fluid off the parts before applying the loktite. Guess this is my "don't do that" time-out to learn my lesson (again). Glad nothing got hurt. The crank seal was already replaced, and looks solid (in spite of the fact that I hacked up the sealing surface pretty bad getting the old one out). That was the one I expected to leak, and it looks solid as a rock. The one I did not expect to leak was the big one that goes over the pully shaft (5th gear drive assembly). I had just wedged that one in there with hand pressure, and it looked in, but probably was not. It took quite a bit of force with a rubber mallet and heavy plastic cup cut down to the right diameter (shhh... don't tell the wife) to get that thing to *really* seat in there. Did you have to do anything special to get yours to stop popping out? Or was the one popping out of yours that cap looking thing that actually goes into the 5th gear drive assembly hollow shaft? I am thinking seriously about pulling that thing once a year, flushing that whole bearing and shaft assembly over there in place with some light solvents (wd-40 or diesel or something), then repacking it with fresh grease. Then add a new plug, maybe RTV it in place, and change the primary fluid to get out the contamination. Those needle bearings behind that seal don't appear to get much oil flow. Guess I could leave the grease out, and just carefully lay the bike on it's right side for an hour after every ride  | ||
| Jmartz |
Do not add grease to the 5th gear double needle bearing set. Its lubrication is already marginal. If the insides of the tranny are free of gooppy chunks oil should be able to circulate in there fine. Don't fix it if it ain't broken. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Why does my sprocket seal keep popping off? Jmartz, what did you do to fix yours? RTV? Rough up the surface? Don't moisten the lips of the seal (like the manual says you should)? RTV? After an unbelievable amount of pain and suffering, that right side 5th gear drive assembly front sprocket seal popping off is the *final* issue standing between me and a runnable bike. HELP!  | ||
| Jim_witt |
Bill, I had the same problem with mine. Right or wrong, once I cleaned it throughlly it didn't pop off. -JW:>  | ||
| Aaron |
I'd give it a thorough cleaning and I'd glue it on there, but I'd use 3-bond 1104. Not near as messy as RTV and easier to clean-up (lacquer thinner tackes it right off) | ||
| Reepicheep |
 I love this place! | ||
| Jmartz |
The first kick-off was due the outer needle bearing taking a walk towards the outside. With a 3 jaw puller (pusher in this case) and a socket I was able to shove it back in there. I lost it another time for unknown reasons. Finally I glued it like aarron says. | ||
| Aaron |
Something else to keep in mind is that an overtight belt can also cause that seal to pop out, as well as damage those bearings. | ||
| Jmartz |
That is true. Buell rerecommended the tightening procedure between '96 and later. These incidents, in my case, were during this early period. | ||
| Al_lighton |
Bill, Are you still planning on posting the pictures of your transmission operation? I'm getting the transmission lurch in first gear occasionally, I'm quite certain that I've got the worn dogs disease...at 31K miles, it's about due. No problems in any of the other gears, but I updated my 2nd gear ratios to 2000 spec about 12K ago, using the battle2win article as a guide. I installed a baker smooth shift kit at the same time. I will take pictures as well. Once I see what you post, I'll fill in any info gaps that strike me, and between the two, we ought to have a pretty good transmission overhaul primer here. I sure hope I don't see any 5th gear bearing issues like you were fighting with. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sounds like a great idea Al. I was trying to get another batch of speedo sensor filters together, but need to get those pictures posted. I will try and get them up tonight. I hope you don't have any issues with those bearings either, but if you do it's all doable, just a little more money and a little more work. I had the worst combination, screwed up bearings on that 5th gear assembly, and a mangled mainshaft, so I had to press out and in all sorts of silly parts. It's not normally that bad. | ||
| Thunderbike |
i have a 99 s3 that has of late taken to puking oil out the trans breather(twice to be correct). this last time was after replacing the speedo sender(possible air bubble?)and heavy midrange rpm use in the canyons.i've seen this happen to other tubeframes also.whats the cause?is there a fix? any help would be appreciated. | ||
| Reepicheep |
You are on the right thread. There should be no way messing with the speedo sensor sender should have any effect on transmission fluid puking. In my case (and bunches of other peoples cases) it was just a worn out seal between the crank case and primary case. You have to pull the shift linkage, pull the primary cover, and remove the clutch assembly (as a unit) at the same time you pull the alternator rotor. They come off together. You need a couple "really big" sockets, and a way to get 200 foot pounds of torque to reinstall. And locktite red. There is also a "seal installer tool", but a split section of copper pipe worked fine for me. Make sure you get that crank nut and crank really clean before applying the locktite, and you might want to slap a torque wrench on the four bolts that hold the engine sprocket to the alternator rotor while you have it apart. Mine backed out about 1000 miles after my crank nut backed off >  Also, the metal cometic primary gasket works far better and is far easier to install then the old paper one, and is cheaper then the new metal harley one. It's not a bad job if you have the big sockets. Be really careful working the old seal out, the mating aluminum surface on the engine is soft as butter, and getting that old seal out can take some patience. Make sure you put the spacer back in before installing the seal. If you have the old style primary chain tensioner, update that while you are in there as well. | ||
| Snowdave |
I can't find any comments about this by searching, so here goes......Has anyone tried the tranny mod of moving 2nd & 3rd gears closer together by removing a 0.070" spacer and using thinner spacers on either side? When I measured, these two gears were 0.105" apart & most other gears were 0.050" apart. The easiest thing to do would be to move the 0.070" spacer from one side of the gear to the other and only leave a clearance of 0.035". Is this okay? Is that too tight? The mod did not say that I should shoot for 0.050" clearance, so I am not sure what measurement to shoot for. Thanks, Dave | ||
| Reepicheep |
What is the change supposed to accomplish? Give the dogs a little more engagement? | ||
| Snowdave |
It reduces missed shifts into second gear. | ||
| Hootowl |
Thunderbike, Change your tranny oil first. It may just have some water in it. |
